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Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7

Wed, 04 July 2012 11:41

Orange

Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 215
Registered: November 2005
Location: TO, ONT, CA

Altruist wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 09:34

Usually I don't mingle into the rules of games I won't play in. But after having played in 3 sas games, won 2, I feel quite attached to the sas-series. Since I was playing in the last sas-game (on the receiving side of the min dam bug), I know how difficult this is for sas.

Nevertheless I would strongly advice NOT to ban torps.
The reason: it unbalances Stars.
The best thing about Stars is that there is not THE game style nor THE warship-design. There is a counter for everything.

This is destroyed when banning torps. Most of you are experienced players, so I guess it is not really a strat-spoiler when I say what will happen with banend torps in a sas-environment: frigates with yakis will rule. There is no counter to it except range-3-frigates much later on.

This sounds a bit boring, doesn't it?

Allowing beta also means that FF hulls are no good anymore and that also unbalances Stars. Yak FF ruling over DDs (beta or Yak) is what should be. Beta DDs (in single stacks) have an edge but Yak/X-ray FFs should win anyway - most of the dmg is from the min dmg bug and not the torp itself (see the numbers from http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=msg&th=507 4&start=0&rid=824&S=3aa5a476682839a51bd8417a4cb5 496f ). It is only the min dmg bug that allows beta torps to be effective against FFs or DDs. I think banning Alpha and Beta torps puts Stars closest to the original intentions of the designers.

Only WM FFs have a chance with its high speed, all other races would have their early FFs destroyed by a torp Starbase no matter the FF stack size. The only reason this min dmg bug has not been issue in regular games is that this alpha/beta torp phase passes so quickly.

Altruist wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 09:34

Compare this with our last sas-game: the complexity of battles due to the min dam bug, the greater importance of speed and armour, new ways to use chaff, a multitude of ship designs to make use of the min dam bug, to circumvent it, to chaff it, decent warship designs etc. Agreed, the min dam bug is a pain in the ass but better than forcing everybody to use one overwhelmingly strong design, I think.

As noted, beta DDs even in single stacks are not counters to FFs anyway if it were not for the min dmg bug.

Allowing min dmg bug may make the stars game more interesting as it new, but it is a different game (no FF hull for most races).

[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 11:44]

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		Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Sat, 30 June 2012 12:55
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: LaserBeard on Sat, 30 June 2012 14:52
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Sat, 30 June 2012 15:17
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: aprahanti on Sat, 30 June 2012 15:58
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Sat, 30 June 2012 16:45
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Sat, 30 June 2012 20:26
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Altruist on Mon, 02 July 2012 09:34
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: LaserBeard on Mon, 02 July 2012 10:40
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Mon, 02 July 2012 12:37
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: iztok on Tue, 03 July 2012 05:31
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Tue, 03 July 2012 13:52
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: iztok on Wed, 04 July 2012 03:44
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Altruist on Wed, 04 July 2012 05:28
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: iztok on Wed, 04 July 2012 08:09
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Orange on Wed, 04 July 2012 11:41
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Orange on Wed, 04 July 2012 11:20
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Wed, 04 July 2012 18:37
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Wed, 04 July 2012 18:39
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Altruist on Wed, 04 July 2012 18:47
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Tue, 10 July 2012 17:04
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Orange on Wed, 18 July 2012 13:53
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Wed, 18 July 2012 16:43
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Coyote on Wed, 18 July 2012 20:49
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Fri, 20 July 2012 15:14
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: LaserBeard on Fri, 20 July 2012 17:55
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Orange on Fri, 20 July 2012 23:43
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Fri, 20 July 2012 23:52
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: aprahanti on Tue, 10 July 2012 21:38
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: jennyhotchic on Wed, 11 July 2012 21:24
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: neilhoward on Thu, 12 July 2012 06:45
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Thu, 12 July 2012 12:47
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Coyote on Sat, 14 July 2012 03:55
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Sat, 14 July 2012 14:04
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: joseph on Sun, 15 July 2012 05:58
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Coyote on Sun, 15 July 2012 16:45
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Ron on Mon, 16 July 2012 00:31
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Altruist on Mon, 16 July 2012 10:08
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Mon, 16 July 2012 14:32
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Orange on Wed, 18 July 2012 13:43
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Sun, 22 July 2012 21:44
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: LaserBeard on Thu, 26 July 2012 17:58
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Thu, 26 July 2012 19:07
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: LittleEddie on Thu, 26 July 2012 22:32
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Fri, 27 July 2012 13:16
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mac1 on Wed, 01 August 2012 03:30
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Thu, 02 August 2012 13:17
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: rolfverberg on Mon, 06 August 2012 14:55
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Mon, 06 August 2012 15:01
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Mon, 06 August 2012 15:02
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Orange on Tue, 07 August 2012 10:26
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Tue, 07 August 2012 12:38
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Tue, 07 August 2012 12:41
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: rolfverberg on Thu, 09 August 2012 20:30
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mac1 on Tue, 07 August 2012 03:10
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Fri, 10 August 2012 01:21
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mac1 on Fri, 10 August 2012 04:44
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Coyote on Fri, 10 August 2012 09:43
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mac1 on Fri, 10 August 2012 12:09
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Fri, 10 August 2012 12:33
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Sat, 11 August 2012 19:09
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: LittleEddie on Wed, 15 August 2012 06:15
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Tue, 14 August 2012 21:25
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Wed, 15 August 2012 07:32
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Coyote on Thu, 16 August 2012 08:12
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Thu, 16 August 2012 13:15
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Thu, 16 August 2012 21:44
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mark Hewitt on Fri, 17 August 2012 06:49
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Fri, 17 August 2012 15:34
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Fri, 17 August 2012 15:39
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Fri, 17 August 2012 18:59
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Sat, 18 August 2012 01:41
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mark Hewitt on Sat, 18 August 2012 04:39
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mark Hewitt on Sun, 19 August 2012 04:32
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Sun, 19 August 2012 11:29
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Mon, 20 August 2012 12:43
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Orange on Mon, 20 August 2012 13:22
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mac1 on Mon, 20 August 2012 13:52
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mark Hewitt on Mon, 20 August 2012 16:59
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Fri, 24 August 2012 13:12
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: sprocket on Fri, 24 August 2012 17:45
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Fri, 24 August 2012 18:45
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: LittleEddie on Fri, 24 August 2012 19:26
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: sprocket on Sat, 25 August 2012 00:23
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: ManicLurch on Sat, 25 August 2012 00:26
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: sprocket on Sat, 25 August 2012 06:46
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Sat, 25 August 2012 10:11
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mac1 on Sat, 25 August 2012 11:53
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Sat, 25 August 2012 22:58
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mark Hewitt on Sun, 26 August 2012 01:17
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mac1 on Sun, 26 August 2012 05:14
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Coyote on Sun, 26 August 2012 13:45
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Coyote on Sun, 26 August 2012 22:29
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Sun, 26 August 2012 22:47
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mark Hewitt on Mon, 27 August 2012 11:25
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Mon, 27 August 2012 19:36
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mark Hewitt on Mon, 27 August 2012 22:04
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Tue, 28 August 2012 02:17
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: sprocket on Thu, 30 August 2012 15:57
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Thu, 30 August 2012 21:31
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: LittleEddie on Fri, 31 August 2012 12:25
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: sprocket on Fri, 31 August 2012 16:39
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Fri, 31 August 2012 19:22
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Fri, 31 August 2012 19:31
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mark Hewitt on Sat, 01 September 2012 02:53
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Coyote on Sat, 01 September 2012 04:52
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Mark Hewitt on Sat, 01 September 2012 11:50
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Coyote on Sat, 01 September 2012 08:08
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Marduk on Sat, 01 September 2012 14:17
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		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: neilhoward on Sun, 23 September 2012 00:05
		Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 By: Ashlyn on Sun, 07 October 2012 12:26

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