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Re: Ramscoops, which one to use?

Sat, 03 May 2003 17:20

zoid

Ensign

Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA

freakyboy wrote on Sat, 03 May 2003 03:35

Any race that can research a reasonable ram scoop engine quick enough (IT, AR, any -F and HE are good examples) shouldn't really take either... unless they have propulsion tech expensive.

NRSE is something taken to offset IFE. I mean lets face it... and race that doesn't want to research propulsion NEEDS the IFE of it's gotta be an IT (why the hell would an IT NOT research propulsion????????). NRSE is just something that doesn't hurt too much to any race that plans to mainly use the mizer for a long long time and helps get some points back.

Any way you want to arrange the priorities, there seems to be a tendency to take IFE, NRSE, expensive prop research, and gravity immunity as a package. And that's quite a package, with a net cost of 547 RW points. What do you gain in the end?

ADVANTAGES:
1) 15% better fuel economy
2) FM engine (with expensive prop research forget the galaxy scoop)
3) Perfect gravity habs at any planet
4) No need to terraform gravity
5) Early warp 10 capable engine
6) One additional starting tech in propulsion

DISADVANTAGES:
1) -547 RW points!
2) Bulky, expensive engines make bulky, expensive ships
3) No fuel scooping
4) No tech trade possiblity with propulsion
5) Too often, others share the same immunity as you, limiting it's value.
6) You've used 2 LRT's, and more LRT's may cost more.

Obviously it's a matter of personal opinion and choice, tailored by the scenario, the PRT you choose and your intended strategy to win. However, I just think I could gain more advantage with less disadvantages by using those 547 RW points in a different way.

Most of the points used in the package above and most of the real benefit comes from the gravity immunity, but if many others take the same package the immunity doesn't give you any hab advantage. The immunity itself only costs 572 points. For an offset gain of 25 points comes the rest of the package attached to it, limiting your engines and crippling propulsion research,only giving the FM engine and 15% better fuel efficiency (which I can't say I've ever noticed being that critical). The value of the FM is short lived, since any other scoop engine is better both in fuel-less travel, and fuel scooping ability. Ever notice how little fuel the FM scoops? It sucks. You'll putter along at warp 4 for a long time trying to get fuel back to go full speed again. The 25 point offset gain from IFE, NRSE, and expensive prop research simply isn't worth it.

I'd just take the immunity and leave the rest. On the other hand, if you want an immunity wherein you get the fullest benefit you can take a less common immunity such as radiation with no strings attached, only coming out 25 points behind the guy who takes all the above. With no LRT's yet selected, you might even come out ahead once you select a couple other LRT's. For instance, if you also take OBRM, NAS, and RS you have a net cost of 411 points. The guy taking only the immunity and the last three LRT's (OBRM, NAS, and RS) has a net cost of 369 points. Furthermore, he retains the ability to make economical scoop engines and research propulsion to his hearts content, or trade that field of research into expensive for another cheap tech somewhere else at no cost.

"But I just HAVE to have that FM engine for early expansion!" Bah. How about lowering prop research to cheap, and now you're only at 412 points cost (1 point over the package cost). Those early techs are godawful cheap. You can have a better scoop in no time, and now you can even get that cheap warp 10 capable chaff someday, and trade propulsion tech.

Again, I understand sometimes a particular scenario, PRT and strategy combination may make the package deal I'm disparaging a good race. I'm just saying generally, I don't like it. IFE costs too much and yields too little, NRSE doesn't give enough back, and as I said before, because of it's impact on your race, it becomes a more race-defining element in the creation process than it ought to be. ...

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I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
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[Message index]

		Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Micha on Tue, 25 February 2003 18:59
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Coyote on Tue, 25 February 2003 22:11
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Tue, 25 February 2003 22:13
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Wed, 26 February 2003 22:46
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Thu, 27 February 2003 00:29
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: ninja_squirrel on Thu, 27 February 2003 02:23
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Thu, 27 February 2003 13:33
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Thu, 27 February 2003 13:59
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Thu, 27 February 2003 14:33
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: UAF commander on Sat, 01 March 2003 08:08
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sat, 01 March 2003 09:28
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Sun, 02 March 2003 00:00
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Mon, 03 March 2003 11:18
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: UAF commander on Sat, 01 March 2003 11:31
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Sat, 01 March 2003 11:43
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Micha on Sat, 01 March 2003 16:21
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Mon, 03 March 2003 11:16
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Mon, 03 March 2003 12:57
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Mon, 03 March 2003 17:42
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Tue, 04 March 2003 13:14
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Wed, 05 March 2003 14:21
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Wed, 05 March 2003 22:26
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Thu, 06 March 2003 10:30
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Hetzer on Thu, 06 March 2003 11:37
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Thu, 06 March 2003 17:54
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Thu, 06 March 2003 21:06
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Fri, 07 March 2003 05:32
		hey By: Ron on Fri, 07 March 2003 12:00
		Re: hey By: Hetzer on Fri, 07 March 2003 15:41
		Re: hey By: yucaf on Fri, 07 March 2003 21:38
		Re: hey By: BlueTurbit on Fri, 07 March 2003 23:41
		doubt By: yucaf on Mon, 10 March 2003 11:42
		Limburger? (Re: doubt) By: Micha on Mon, 10 March 2003 16:46
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Micha on Sun, 09 March 2003 05:47
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Mon, 10 March 2003 17:37
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BackBlast on Tue, 11 March 2003 14:05
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Wed, 12 March 2003 14:07
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: jeffimix on Sat, 15 March 2003 23:14
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: UAF commander on Sun, 02 March 2003 12:23
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sun, 02 March 2003 17:57
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: ninja_squirrel on Tue, 04 March 2003 10:41
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Tue, 04 March 2003 11:06
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: freakyboy on Mon, 17 March 2003 16:38
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Paladin on Fri, 02 May 2003 12:11
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Fri, 02 May 2003 22:52
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: freakyboy on Sat, 03 May 2003 06:35
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Sat, 03 May 2003 17:20
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Paladin on Mon, 05 May 2003 10:36
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Kotk on Fri, 27 June 2003 09:42
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Fri, 27 June 2003 10:33
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Robert on Fri, 27 June 2003 12:07
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Fri, 27 June 2003 16:39
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Paladin on Fri, 27 June 2003 12:18
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Crusader on Fri, 27 June 2003 13:15
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Fri, 27 June 2003 18:12
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Kotk on Tue, 01 July 2003 05:59
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Tue, 01 July 2003 11:51
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Kotk on Tue, 01 July 2003 14:01
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Abaddon on Wed, 28 May 2003 05:55
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Paladin on Wed, 28 May 2003 09:43
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Marduk on Thu, 29 May 2003 10:55
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: OOMatter on Thu, 05 June 2003 17:32
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Crusader on Thu, 05 June 2003 16:51
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Crusader on Fri, 06 June 2003 08:57
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: ninja_squirrel on Sat, 28 June 2003 03:57
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Sotek on Sat, 28 June 2003 05:10
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sat, 28 June 2003 07:52
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Sotek on Sun, 29 June 2003 12:48
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sun, 29 June 2003 13:25
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: shiver on Sun, 05 February 2006 04:30
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sun, 05 February 2006 08:01
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: PricklyPea on Sun, 05 February 2006 08:12
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sun, 05 February 2006 09:45

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