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Re: Ramscoops, which one to use?

Tue, 11 March 2003 14:05

BackBlast

Officer Cadet 1st Year
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Messages: 215
Registered: February 2003
Location: A Rock

yucaf wrote on Mon, 10 March 2003 17:37

Looks like SD is the best option for the IFE not NRSE combo, in particular because 1-you have some extra points, 2-you need to compete at the beginning with fast start economic monsters and 3-later on you have so many ships in space and all the dodging thing with the layers that you need to have complete fuel autonomy.

Regards,

YucaF

I think IFE and NOT NRSE has a wider application than this. First off, NRSE does not provide that many points. It seems to provide 53 when you have 4 or less LRTs. First candidate for not checking NRSC is the race who has selected many LRTs. I know most people advocate against this. But certain ideas require certain LRTs to pull off. Once you hit 5 LRTs, suddenly the point boost for NRSC is even more minimal.

The next factor in this selection, is your economic settings. Rams are much cheaper in resources, they are lighter, then cost less iron, and more germ. So, a -F I think would be a very good candidate for not selecting NRSE because it places so little value on the germ. Using germ for engines and less iron seems like a good idea, not to mention the fuel benefits and fewer resources needed. An HP will probably not want to use the germ-expensive scoops on a warship they are planning on mass producing. So I'd say an HP is a good candidate for checking NRSE.

There are extreme ideas like the WM I posted in the WM forum. I checked IFE and CE, and purposely left NRSE unchecked. Half price scoops are very cheap to build, allowing for large numbers of ships to be produced with smaller hulls. WM movement bonus more than makes up for the movement deficiency of scoops as any one tech level. WM bonus of 25% cheaper weapons makes it especially scary.

There is this Green Engine that everyone seems to like? Rolling Eyes

I see no reason why such a fan base surrounds this engine. It's HORRIBLE. You do realize that any hull you put this engine on is essentially doubling the cost of the hull to build (or more!)? It's not entirely true with the BB but it's pretty darn close! "Oh, but it goes warp 10!" Big deal! Your chaff can't! Chaff is a bunch of fuel eating ships that can barely keep up with a war-fleet at warp 9. Yeah, some will move chaff at warp 10 with the main fleet for a year or 2. Never for extended periods of time. The cost of this engine is just too high for 1 or 2 years at warp 10. On a positive note for it, it allows you to get decent beamer BB speeds on a non-WM race. But I would definitely be leaning toward the scoops, even at a few tech levels later. The research will be made up for in short order with a cheaper engine. And if one doesn't use the green engine, you have to wait a long long time for warp 10 (with NRSE). Evil evil bad bad.

Now we have the case where races keep ships in deep space for very extended periods of time. I believe these PRTs are SS, SD, HE. If you select any of these PRTs and are thinking of selecting NRSE, I strongly suggest rethinking that choice. SS and SD are probably obvious, HE maybe not so much.. With HE, you get a cool engine to start making IFE a choice rather than mandatory. But when you don't want to be building mini colonizers any more, you'll want something that moves at warp 9 reasonably that isn't insanely expensive. And you can have your own terror ships with the meta morph, nice that it can run forever. Not to mention basic warship designs to protect your empire. Since you can't use the FM, rams just make sense.

Engines are required on every hull. You can't build a ship without an engine. If there was a LRT that said '15% cheaper ship hulls', would it not be attractive? That's basically what this LRT is! This is an important issue, more so than 50 points in the race wizard. Zoid's remarks about points being negligible are very valid (never mind the crazy race, I play crazy races all the time, they are fun Very Happy

). If I need scoops, it's not a matter of how many points it costs, I take them. I once bought into the 'always take IFE and NRSE' advice, ...

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[Message index]

		Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Micha on Tue, 25 February 2003 18:59
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Coyote on Tue, 25 February 2003 22:11
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Tue, 25 February 2003 22:13
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Wed, 26 February 2003 22:46
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Thu, 27 February 2003 00:29
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: ninja_squirrel on Thu, 27 February 2003 02:23
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Thu, 27 February 2003 13:33
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Thu, 27 February 2003 13:59
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Thu, 27 February 2003 14:33
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: UAF commander on Sat, 01 March 2003 08:08
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sat, 01 March 2003 09:28
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Sun, 02 March 2003 00:00
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Mon, 03 March 2003 11:18
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: UAF commander on Sat, 01 March 2003 11:31
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Sat, 01 March 2003 11:43
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Micha on Sat, 01 March 2003 16:21
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Mon, 03 March 2003 11:16
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Mon, 03 March 2003 12:57
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Mon, 03 March 2003 17:42
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Tue, 04 March 2003 13:14
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Wed, 05 March 2003 14:21
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Wed, 05 March 2003 22:26
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Thu, 06 March 2003 10:30
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Hetzer on Thu, 06 March 2003 11:37
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Thu, 06 March 2003 17:54
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Thu, 06 March 2003 21:06
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Fri, 07 March 2003 05:32
		hey By: Ron on Fri, 07 March 2003 12:00
		Re: hey By: Hetzer on Fri, 07 March 2003 15:41
		Re: hey By: yucaf on Fri, 07 March 2003 21:38
		Re: hey By: BlueTurbit on Fri, 07 March 2003 23:41
		doubt By: yucaf on Mon, 10 March 2003 11:42
		Limburger? (Re: doubt) By: Micha on Mon, 10 March 2003 16:46
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Micha on Sun, 09 March 2003 05:47
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Mon, 10 March 2003 17:37
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BackBlast on Tue, 11 March 2003 14:05
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Wed, 12 March 2003 14:07
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: jeffimix on Sat, 15 March 2003 23:14
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: UAF commander on Sun, 02 March 2003 12:23
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sun, 02 March 2003 17:57
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: ninja_squirrel on Tue, 04 March 2003 10:41
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Tue, 04 March 2003 11:06
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: freakyboy on Mon, 17 March 2003 16:38
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Paladin on Fri, 02 May 2003 12:11
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Fri, 02 May 2003 22:52
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: freakyboy on Sat, 03 May 2003 06:35
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Sat, 03 May 2003 17:20
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Paladin on Mon, 05 May 2003 10:36
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Kotk on Fri, 27 June 2003 09:42
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Fri, 27 June 2003 10:33
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Robert on Fri, 27 June 2003 12:07
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Fri, 27 June 2003 16:39
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Paladin on Fri, 27 June 2003 12:18
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Crusader on Fri, 27 June 2003 13:15
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Fri, 27 June 2003 18:12
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Kotk on Tue, 01 July 2003 05:59
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Tue, 01 July 2003 11:51
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Kotk on Tue, 01 July 2003 14:01
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Abaddon on Wed, 28 May 2003 05:55
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Paladin on Wed, 28 May 2003 09:43
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Marduk on Thu, 29 May 2003 10:55
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: OOMatter on Thu, 05 June 2003 17:32
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Crusader on Thu, 05 June 2003 16:51
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Crusader on Fri, 06 June 2003 08:57
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: ninja_squirrel on Sat, 28 June 2003 03:57
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Sotek on Sat, 28 June 2003 05:10
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sat, 28 June 2003 07:52
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Sotek on Sun, 29 June 2003 12:48
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sun, 29 June 2003 13:25
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: shiver on Sun, 05 February 2006 04:30
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sun, 05 February 2006 08:01
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: PricklyPea on Sun, 05 February 2006 08:12
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sun, 05 February 2006 09:45

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