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Re: Ramscoops, which one to use?

Wed, 26 February 2003 22:46

yucaf

Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 100
Registered: December 2002
Location: India

IMHO, thinking about what I want to achieve, which is WINNING a game, instead of having nice ecological ships, going PROP16 is per se enough not to want it.

You get nothing from Prop12 to 16, and it's expensive.

To make it cheaper, you would have not to take Prop +75%, that's a lot of point (someone mention Prop normal, what for?)

My priorities for research is Weapon all the way to 20/24/26 and Construction to 13 ASAP, while getting at some point En10, Elec10 or 11 and Bio7 (at best, I like the organic on BB's). I want some warp9 efficient engines ASAP but I generally use extensively the FM until I really need lots of warships, and if I have the ressources I go to Prop11 for the w10 engine, then maybe pr12 for the jets (it's already expensive from 11 to 12) - What I mean is that I get the propulsion goodies once I can at least defend myself. I will rather build ARM Nubians with heavy and expensive warp9 engines than Jugg BB's with very nice warp10 ramscoops. In a fight, my ships win and I get the enemy's minerals to compensate for the cost Laughing

So if I take Prop+75%, why would I research Prop above level 12? OK, maybe when I have Weap26, Con26, En15 and Elec19, OK, I can spend some ressources on Prop. But the other techs are better, as simple as that. Yes, warp10 is expensive with the green engine. But then if I can deploy Doomsdays while my enemy is trying to get that Prop16 ramscoop, I will certainly get an edge, probably and advantage and maybe I will simply kill him.

Prop and Bio are boring fields to research once you have the basics. This is something I think the mods are trying to change so you have to think more in your choices in race design, which I think is a good thing. But for the standard Stars, unfortunately, there is a winning recipe of priorities: Weapon cheap, then if you can, Con cheap or normal, then if you can (starts to be difficult), En or El normal (depends on PRT mainly), then Prop and Bio +75%. And that means NRSE unless you want to play all the game at warp9 (possible in smaller universes)

I have played with and without NRSE, and when I had it, it always took me a long time to get good ramscoops (because I COULD NOT afford to loose the research race against my opponents to get those nice scoops), and I had little advantage beside the cost. Taking Prop normal took away precious race points from me and I could feel it in the economy. And what do I do with my cheap Prop once I have Prop16? What is the use of the reduced cost to get to Prop26?

Engines are expensive but compare that to the total amount invested in weapons and what those get you...

I can even give you an example: in a game I was opposed to a WM being myself a WM (both with IFE/NRSE). He had more ressources, in fact he was way ahead of me, although I was 2nd. He started building Jihad BB's with nice warp10 engines. A nice army. He built also minibombers with those engines. Then he sent his army at me. I had Prop 9 and only a bunch of BCs! However, I already had the Jugg. I made very careful calculation and simulations, and determined what I needed to do to destroy his army: I knew I was going to have to loose 3 planets, but meanwhile I could buy at least 10 years of time if they resisted well. While his ships were approaching I designed a special BB with 12 Juggernauts each, high initiative and the rest very cheap: no armor (he had neutronium), bear shields (like him) and FM engine! I built those like mad. I also added a special fast sapper design. The objective was to stop his army or in 10 more turns I would be destroyed to the point of not being able to come back.

And it worked! While he was bombing my 3rd planet, I had enough ships to annihilate his whole army! They were not nice, but they were cheap enough to be able to build almost twice as a nice design. They were fuel hungry, not very well protected, but I got his minerals and stopped his assault. If I had tried to build nice powerful, fast BB's, I would not have had enough to stop him. He was in shock, I was delighted. Those ships were a pain in the ** ...

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		Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Micha on Tue, 25 February 2003 18:59
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Coyote on Tue, 25 February 2003 22:11
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Tue, 25 February 2003 22:13
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Wed, 26 February 2003 22:46
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Thu, 27 February 2003 00:29
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: ninja_squirrel on Thu, 27 February 2003 02:23
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Thu, 27 February 2003 13:33
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Thu, 27 February 2003 13:59
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Thu, 27 February 2003 14:33
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: UAF commander on Sat, 01 March 2003 08:08
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sat, 01 March 2003 09:28
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Sun, 02 March 2003 00:00
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Mon, 03 March 2003 11:18
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: UAF commander on Sat, 01 March 2003 11:31
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Sat, 01 March 2003 11:43
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Micha on Sat, 01 March 2003 16:21
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Mon, 03 March 2003 11:16
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Mon, 03 March 2003 12:57
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Mon, 03 March 2003 17:42
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Stalwart on Tue, 04 March 2003 13:14
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Wed, 05 March 2003 14:21
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Wed, 05 March 2003 22:26
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Thu, 06 March 2003 10:30
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Hetzer on Thu, 06 March 2003 11:37
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Thu, 06 March 2003 17:54
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Thu, 06 March 2003 21:06
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Fri, 07 March 2003 05:32
		hey By: Ron on Fri, 07 March 2003 12:00
		Re: hey By: Hetzer on Fri, 07 March 2003 15:41
		Re: hey By: yucaf on Fri, 07 March 2003 21:38
		Re: hey By: BlueTurbit on Fri, 07 March 2003 23:41
		doubt By: yucaf on Mon, 10 March 2003 11:42
		Limburger? (Re: doubt) By: Micha on Mon, 10 March 2003 16:46
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Micha on Sun, 09 March 2003 05:47
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Mon, 10 March 2003 17:37
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BackBlast on Tue, 11 March 2003 14:05
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Wed, 12 March 2003 14:07
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: jeffimix on Sat, 15 March 2003 23:14
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: UAF commander on Sun, 02 March 2003 12:23
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sun, 02 March 2003 17:57
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: ninja_squirrel on Tue, 04 March 2003 10:41
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: yucaf on Tue, 04 March 2003 11:06
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: freakyboy on Mon, 17 March 2003 16:38
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Paladin on Fri, 02 May 2003 12:11
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Fri, 02 May 2003 22:52
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: freakyboy on Sat, 03 May 2003 06:35
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Sat, 03 May 2003 17:20
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Paladin on Mon, 05 May 2003 10:36
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Kotk on Fri, 27 June 2003 09:42
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Fri, 27 June 2003 10:33
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Robert on Fri, 27 June 2003 12:07
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Fri, 27 June 2003 16:39
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Paladin on Fri, 27 June 2003 12:18
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Crusader on Fri, 27 June 2003 13:15
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: zoid on Fri, 27 June 2003 18:12
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Kotk on Tue, 01 July 2003 05:59
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Tue, 01 July 2003 11:51
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Kotk on Tue, 01 July 2003 14:01
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Abaddon on Wed, 28 May 2003 05:55
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Paladin on Wed, 28 May 2003 09:43
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Marduk on Thu, 29 May 2003 10:55
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: OOMatter on Thu, 05 June 2003 17:32
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Crusader on Thu, 05 June 2003 16:51
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Crusader on Fri, 06 June 2003 08:57
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: ninja_squirrel on Sat, 28 June 2003 03:57
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Sotek on Sat, 28 June 2003 05:10
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sat, 28 June 2003 07:52
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: Sotek on Sun, 29 June 2003 12:48
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sun, 29 June 2003 13:25
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: shiver on Sun, 05 February 2006 04:30
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sun, 05 February 2006 08:01
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: PricklyPea on Sun, 05 February 2006 08:12
		Re: Ramscoops, which one to use? By: BlueTurbit on Sun, 05 February 2006 09:45

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