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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away

Mon, 29 January 2007 17:43

Iconian

Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2006
Location: Nevada, USA

Now, time to go over a few specifics, so my post doesn't get too big.

Modules vs. Single Game

Quote:

I'm not entirely happy with the "one program does it all" approach. I.e: there would be greater freedom/evolution if several quite independent "blocks" that make up the game could be tackled on their own, by different (or even competing) people, each working on their platform(s) of choice.

I agree. If we can have several small groups of programmers operating at one time on different aspects of the single game, we can probably get it done more rapidly.

Quote:

I have to disagree here. If Stars! is truly dying and we want to prevent that, we need to attract new players and old players who have given up on it. We can't expect to do that if you have to download 10 modules and walk through a 5 page readme just to get a game started with your buddies. It needs to be simple to create and host games.

And I also agree with you. I have to confess that I downloaded ken's Nova on Saturday. I looked through the pictures but wasn't sure what to do. I returned to his site and found that I needed Microsoft Visio 2005, or something . . . which I don't know where to get, how to use, or even what it is really.

I think we need to combine these two ideas and get it all organized properly. We can have individual teams working on individual components or modules of the game, but at the same time we need a leader who can inter-coordinate the actions of each group. We need to make certain everything is compatible with everything else.

As I've said, I'm no programming expert. But, perhaps what we could do is have each separate team group on one particular folder of information for the game. We want everything to be compatible with everything else. We want it all to work in unison. This means that we have to leave a lot of room to move around. Don't tie anything down that doesn't absolutely have to be--don't hardwire stuff into the system until we're sure we can work around it. But more on that later . . .

Quote:

The game itself needs to be appealing to new players if we want to keep it alive. This is purely annecdotal, but the real problem I've had convincing my friends and family to play the original game are all based on its complexity. The game is pretty dang complicated to pick up for a beginner. The micromanagment required per planet is really high, and the tools in the game to help with micromanagment are hard to figure out (repeat orders for remote mining transports, moving pop around planets, auto build orders for new planets, etc.)

I can attest to this. I tried to get my brother to play Stars! a while back. We both have common interests with games like Half Life, Counter Strike, Thief 2, Square RPG's, and some others. Clearly, Stars! doesn't appeal to some types of gamers at all, but there are other gamers that it would appeal to, if it was sufficiently simple to get into. In this regard, I offer up a few different and associated ideas.

Occasionally I'll draw something using Microsoft Paint. Paint is a very simple program. The learning curve is, oh, ten minutes, maybe. I can do a few things with it. It does them OK.

I've also used Photoshop from time to time. It's much different from Paint. It's extremely complex. If I were to spend a few hours (10, 20, 30, who knows?) I could probably understand it well enough to use it all the time. Yet, I find myself returning to Paint continually because it's quick and easy.

Photoshop is like Stars!
Paint is like Starmonger,, Pax Solaris, or some others.

Each of those games has its own interesting set of features. In the past couple weeks I've completed probably 10 games of Starmonger. To contrast, I've complete 0 of Stars! in that same time period. Starmonger is simple.

Now . . . we can say, "That's OK. Stars! is a different kind of game. It's not meant for everyone." That's true. Even if it was more like Starmonger or Pax Solaris, my brother probably wouldn't like it. But at least it wouldn't overwhelm him.

I suggest the best of both worlds. Lunar Colony is a game I like a lot. It's easy to get into and understand. I played the tutorial several times, and once I understood I went to easy, medium, hard. Each time I changed the difficulty it added new features to the game.

So, let's do that with this. I think games are about options. Players love options. But, options can sometimes be overwhelming if there are too many of them dropped like a ton of bricks all at once. Let's make Nova (Stars! Revival, whatever we want to call it) in a way that anyone can get into it and do it easily, and later on more options and deeper layers of MM, etc can be added to it. While I've never been a huge fan of wide appeal (I suppose I'm quite an elitist), sometimes it's necessary. Sometimes it's valuable to have popular support.

Quote:

we've got to start somewhere and establish a "baseline" from which we can move forward.

Quote:

It's tempting to make all of this stuff usable by plugin modules, but your average newbie isn't going to be up for downloading the game, the server, the remote mining addon script and a host of other scripts just to make the game enjoyable. There are plenty more games out there that are fun to play and much easier to get started with.

Let's start from somewhere. With writing, one of most important things you can do (or avoid doing rather) is showing someone your work before it's done. On the other hand, I've learned the hard way that sometimes, you need to just get it done. Let's get started on something with several different modules. Each of several different people will work on a particular module for, say, two months. During that time the project coordinator will review what's been done and make sure everything's compatible. The individual modules will be available for downloading if people would like them during that time, but they wouldn't do much good. Then at the end of two months or so all the information gets combined into a single working game made available for download. This means that the programming platforms have to be compatible. I might be getting in a bit over my head here with trying to explain and understand, but the important thing is that everything work together, and that it's easily modifiable in the future so that we can pick it back up without difficulty and add many new features.

Nova?
Now, what is the starting line going to be? Have we decided we want to us Nova? Is Nova the clone that's most advanced to this point? Does anyone really know how far along Freestars is? I've heard that Freestars may not ever get finished--one programmer said in a post he was dissatisfied it was taking so long and was going to try it on his own. Does anyone know what's taken Freestars so long? And how can we avoid their problems?

Maybe we should take a vote on which clone would be best to work from . . . it should probably whichever is farthest along at the moment.

I think that probably one of the most important things we can do here is avoid duplication. In general, duplication=waste. There are a bunch of different Stars! clones out there. Let's not let them go to waste. I think we should contact the various programmers and see if they'd be willing to share their time and resources on a serious effort at making a Stars! sequel. Consider that with all those clones there's bound to be a lot of code lying around. If that code could be integrated into this effort, we could probably save ourselves a lot of work. We just have to make sure we don't spend too much time trying to get it all to "fit together." If we can get a hold of some of the other clones' code, let's assess how long it will likely take to integrate that code. If it would just be faster to program it from scratch, then we should probably do so.

Finally, if you do know someone who might be interested in helping out with a Stars! sequel/clone, why don't you just "ping" them to find out where they might be in the next few months? I believe we can go some pretty cool places, but it might require a fair amount of work and time. I think I could probably spare at least 15 hours a week . . .

That's all for now.

Yeah, bread too.

Don't Let the Stars! Fade Away

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[Message index]

		Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Iconian on Sat, 27 January 2007 21:59
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sun, 28 January 2007 06:39
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Mon, 29 January 2007 08:52
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Mon, 29 January 2007 09:13
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: sirgwain on Mon, 29 January 2007 15:36
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Tue, 30 January 2007 05:04
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Sun, 28 January 2007 23:54
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Mon, 29 January 2007 04:33
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: GreyMatter on Tue, 30 January 2007 11:48
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Ptolemy on Tue, 30 January 2007 14:10
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Neo the White on Tue, 30 January 2007 14:18
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Tue, 30 January 2007 16:01
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Tue, 30 January 2007 14:29
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Tue, 30 January 2007 14:32
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Mon, 29 January 2007 09:41
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Iconian on Mon, 29 January 2007 16:56
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Iconian on Mon, 29 January 2007 17:43
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Tue, 30 January 2007 05:28
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Tue, 30 January 2007 10:18
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ForceUser on Wed, 31 January 2007 03:15
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Wed, 31 January 2007 04:38
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Wed, 31 January 2007 05:02
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Wed, 31 January 2007 05:24
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Wed, 31 January 2007 06:49
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Wed, 31 January 2007 07:04
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Wed, 31 January 2007 07:20
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Wed, 31 January 2007 14:00
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Wed, 31 January 2007 14:17
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: gible on Thu, 01 February 2007 04:52
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Nibor on Thu, 01 February 2007 12:12
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Thu, 01 February 2007 16:37
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Thu, 01 February 2007 15:54
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Thu, 01 February 2007 16:00
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Iconian on Sat, 03 February 2007 01:12
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Sat, 03 February 2007 02:11
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: sirgwain on Sat, 03 February 2007 09:51
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Neo the White on Sat, 03 February 2007 10:27
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Sat, 03 February 2007 12:54
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Sat, 03 February 2007 22:27
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Altruist on Sun, 04 February 2007 12:22
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: sirgwain on Mon, 05 February 2007 12:10
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sat, 03 February 2007 05:47
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Sat, 03 February 2007 08:13
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Sat, 03 February 2007 08:44
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: sirgwain on Sat, 03 February 2007 09:47
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sat, 03 February 2007 23:37
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: sirgwain on Mon, 05 February 2007 11:40
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Iconian on Sat, 03 February 2007 21:57
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sun, 04 February 2007 07:36
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Sun, 04 February 2007 12:32
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Sun, 04 February 2007 13:58
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: sirgwain on Mon, 05 February 2007 11:42
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Mon, 05 February 2007 15:13
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Iconian on Mon, 05 February 2007 17:19
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: sirgwain on Mon, 05 February 2007 18:11
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Tue, 06 February 2007 06:45
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Tue, 06 February 2007 14:08
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Tue, 06 February 2007 14:37
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Iconian on Mon, 05 February 2007 19:19
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Tue, 06 February 2007 04:10
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Tue, 06 February 2007 04:18
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Tue, 06 February 2007 21:18
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Kotk on Tue, 06 February 2007 21:51
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Tue, 06 February 2007 22:01
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: sirgwain on Tue, 06 February 2007 23:02
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Wed, 07 February 2007 05:28
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Iconian on Wed, 07 February 2007 00:54
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Wed, 07 February 2007 02:24
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Wed, 07 February 2007 05:13
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Wed, 07 February 2007 05:18
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Wed, 07 February 2007 06:00
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Neo the White on Wed, 07 February 2007 09:20
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Neo the White on Wed, 07 February 2007 09:31
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Wed, 07 February 2007 10:00
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Wed, 07 February 2007 10:55
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Wed, 07 February 2007 16:54
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sat, 24 February 2007 02:48
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Thu, 01 March 2007 18:43
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sat, 10 March 2007 16:34
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sun, 11 March 2007 19:57
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Plekto on Mon, 19 March 2007 20:41
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Tue, 20 March 2007 03:52
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sun, 15 April 2007 16:32
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: dethdukk on Mon, 16 April 2007 09:19
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sun, 29 April 2007 08:44
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Neo the White on Sun, 29 April 2007 09:54
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sun, 29 April 2007 10:24
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Mon, 30 April 2007 03:14
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Tue, 01 May 2007 19:13
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ekolis on Wed, 02 May 2007 17:34
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Wed, 02 May 2007 20:54
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Neo the White on Sun, 29 April 2007 10:32
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: hereticbloodline on Fri, 18 May 2007 16:50
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Sun, 20 May 2007 11:47
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Sun, 20 May 2007 23:06
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: hereticbloodline on Mon, 21 May 2007 14:54
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Tue, 22 May 2007 04:42
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Innocence on Mon, 21 May 2007 15:46
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Tue, 22 May 2007 04:57
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Innocence on Tue, 22 May 2007 08:49
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Tue, 22 May 2007 09:35
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Innocence on Tue, 22 May 2007 14:18
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: goober on Mon, 28 May 2007 09:24
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Mon, 28 May 2007 10:02
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: goober on Tue, 29 May 2007 09:04
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: mazda on Tue, 29 May 2007 10:04
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Innocence on Wed, 30 May 2007 02:30
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: goober on Wed, 30 May 2007 03:16
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Wed, 30 May 2007 04:39
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: goober on Wed, 30 May 2007 06:46
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Wed, 30 May 2007 09:11
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Neo the White on Sun, 22 July 2007 08:52
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Mon, 23 July 2007 11:17
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Wed, 15 August 2007 10:15
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: TomT64 on Thu, 16 August 2007 22:38
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Fri, 17 August 2007 03:32
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Tue, 29 May 2007 11:29
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: sirgwain on Sun, 27 May 2007 17:04
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Innocence on Mon, 28 May 2007 15:03
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Trifler on Sun, 27 May 2007 18:29
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: sirgwain on Mon, 28 May 2007 12:32
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ekolis on Sat, 18 August 2007 14:26
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Mon, 20 August 2007 00:00
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ekolis on Mon, 20 August 2007 14:27
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: geraintwd on Mon, 20 August 2007 07:53
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Mon, 20 August 2007 10:18
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Mon, 20 August 2007 10:29
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: NingunOtro on Mon, 20 August 2007 14:11
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Cathode on Mon, 20 August 2007 15:54
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Tue, 21 August 2007 09:29
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sun, 26 August 2007 15:10
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Tue, 21 August 2007 02:02
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Mon, 27 August 2007 05:18
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Mon, 27 August 2007 07:43
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ekolis on Mon, 27 August 2007 20:27
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ConstB on Tue, 28 August 2007 16:43
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Thu, 30 August 2007 10:31
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ConstB on Thu, 06 September 2007 08:28
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Mon, 10 September 2007 11:16
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ConstB on Tue, 11 September 2007 04:10
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Thu, 30 August 2007 18:48
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Fri, 31 August 2007 17:20
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Metorical on Sun, 02 September 2007 09:06
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Tue, 04 September 2007 21:43
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Mon, 10 September 2007 11:19
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Mon, 10 September 2007 11:38
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Mon, 10 September 2007 19:40
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Wed, 12 September 2007 02:54
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ConstB on Tue, 11 September 2007 13:55
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Wed, 12 September 2007 02:59
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ConstB on Wed, 12 September 2007 11:53
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: PaulCr on Wed, 12 September 2007 21:21
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: PaulCr on Thu, 13 September 2007 16:12
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Fri, 14 September 2007 09:42
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Thu, 20 September 2007 19:51
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Mon, 24 September 2007 02:33
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Mon, 24 September 2007 02:56
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ConstB on Sun, 30 September 2007 02:02
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Tue, 25 September 2007 04:01
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Thu, 04 October 2007 06:51
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Thu, 04 October 2007 07:27
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: yartrebo on Fri, 05 October 2007 12:40
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Fri, 05 October 2007 22:04
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: yartrebo on Sat, 06 October 2007 00:16
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Sat, 06 October 2007 07:34
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: yartrebo on Sat, 06 October 2007 10:21
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Sat, 06 October 2007 10:39
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Orion on Sun, 07 October 2007 04:58
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Sun, 07 October 2007 05:16
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: yartrebo on Sun, 07 October 2007 11:34
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Sun, 07 October 2007 12:32
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: yartrebo on Sun, 07 October 2007 14:18
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Sun, 07 October 2007 23:20
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: yartrebo on Mon, 08 October 2007 00:04
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Mon, 08 October 2007 10:21
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sun, 21 October 2007 12:09
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: AlexTheGreat on Sun, 21 October 2007 21:52
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Mon, 22 October 2007 21:59
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Tue, 13 November 2007 17:06
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sun, 25 November 2007 03:12
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Sun, 25 November 2007 05:17
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Fri, 30 November 2007 00:48
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Thu, 03 January 2008 02:43
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Thu, 03 January 2008 10:51
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Thu, 03 January 2008 11:28
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Sat, 05 January 2008 07:05
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sat, 05 January 2008 08:12
		Nova is not Stars! By: ken-reed on Thu, 10 January 2008 17:49
		Re: Nova is not Stars! By: Dogthinkers on Thu, 10 January 2008 18:15
		Re: Nova is not Stars! By: ken-reed on Fri, 11 January 2008 09:17
		Re: Nova is not Stars! By: m.a@stars on Fri, 11 January 2008 13:59
		Re: Nova is not Stars! By: ken-reed on Fri, 11 January 2008 15:20
		Re: Nova is not Stars! By: ken-reed on Fri, 11 January 2008 17:56
		Re: Nova is not Stars! By: Coyote on Sun, 13 January 2008 01:05
		Re: Nova is not Stars! By: ken-reed on Sun, 13 January 2008 04:53
		Re: Nova is not Stars! By: Coyote on Sun, 13 January 2008 23:48
		Re: Nova is not Stars! By: ken-reed on Mon, 14 January 2008 07:02
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ekolis on Fri, 18 January 2008 17:40
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sat, 19 January 2008 06:00
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Thu, 24 January 2008 20:06
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: mav1369 on Sat, 15 March 2008 14:40
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sat, 15 March 2008 19:30
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: dethdukk on Sun, 30 March 2008 22:44
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Mon, 31 March 2008 19:54
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Tue, 01 April 2008 06:37
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: dethdukk on Tue, 01 April 2008 13:43
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Madoushi on Tue, 08 April 2008 01:46
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Tue, 08 April 2008 03:28
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Madoushi on Tue, 08 April 2008 05:07
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Tue, 08 April 2008 10:41
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sat, 12 April 2008 21:10
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Sun, 13 April 2008 02:53
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Wed, 18 June 2008 06:00
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Wed, 18 June 2008 06:37
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Wed, 18 June 2008 09:10
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: LEit on Wed, 18 June 2008 11:37
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sun, 29 June 2008 11:07
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sun, 29 June 2008 20:14
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Sun, 29 June 2008 11:15
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Sun, 29 June 2008 22:07
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Mon, 30 June 2008 06:59
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Adacore on Mon, 30 June 2008 07:13
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: AlexTheGreat on Mon, 30 June 2008 07:59
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Mon, 30 June 2008 21:46
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: LEit on Mon, 30 June 2008 22:27
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Tue, 01 July 2008 03:08
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Adacore on Tue, 01 July 2008 04:15
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Tue, 01 July 2008 05:29
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Wed, 02 July 2008 06:57
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Wed, 02 July 2008 10:37
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Thu, 03 July 2008 02:10
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Thu, 03 July 2008 07:48
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: aikeru on Fri, 11 July 2008 12:20
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Fri, 11 July 2008 16:36
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Thu, 17 July 2008 20:25
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Thu, 09 April 2009 05:14
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: ken-reed on Tue, 16 September 2008 08:39
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: kihaki on Wed, 08 April 2009 17:41
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Thu, 09 April 2009 05:10
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Phenoca on Mon, 20 July 2009 18:28
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: AlexTheGreat on Mon, 20 July 2009 20:13
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: gible on Mon, 20 July 2009 20:49
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Tue, 21 July 2009 01:28
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: mazda on Tue, 21 July 2009 18:42
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: AlexTheGreat on Tue, 21 July 2009 19:13
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: craebild on Tue, 21 July 2009 21:14
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Phenoca on Wed, 22 July 2009 11:25
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Wed, 22 July 2009 21:27
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Starcom on Fri, 05 November 2010 20:42
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Coyote on Sat, 06 November 2010 01:31
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Starcom on Mon, 08 November 2010 01:05
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Daniel on Mon, 08 November 2010 14:37
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Starcom on Tue, 09 November 2010 23:08
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Chazarus on Wed, 10 November 2010 03:11
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: gible on Wed, 10 November 2010 04:26
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Ron on Thu, 11 November 2010 22:25
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Strategic on Fri, 26 November 2010 17:35
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: m.a@stars on Sun, 28 November 2010 09:38
		Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away By: Eagle of Fire on Sat, 15 January 2011 04:12

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