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Re: Meta-morph

Wed, 21 January 2004 17:20

Sotek

Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 167
Registered: November 2002

I never claimed the cruiser was better ship-for-ship.

On the other hand, the highly-cloaked meta *isn't* on par with cruisers on a cost-effectiveness basis, discounting the advantage of stealth.

That is, once a battle happens, equal cost of cloaked metas and normal cruisers, the normal cruisers decimate the cloaked metas. Not equal numbers, equal cost.

And my chances are far, *far* better than 1 in 20 at catching your ships.

You've grouped to hit one of my worlds, correct?
That seems to me to be a reasonable assumption, otherwise I don't care about you; if you're not attacking, you're not hurting me at all.

So you've hit a world.
I can look where my worlds are in relationship to your fleet, which I know the precise location of; you *have* to be at the world you just killed my (probably relatively pathetic) starbase at.

You can only move 81ly as an upper max, because there is no way in hell you'll have warp 10 engines at this point; if you do, you've taken cheap prop and NRSE, or incredibly focused on prop research (with NRSE); that's going to hurt a lot to do; both in more expensive ships (rams are cheaper, after all), and in resources towards propulsion that could have been used elsewhere; I typically have prop 7-8 until into the BB era, and I don't think that's unusual at all.

And a much more plausible movement max is 16-36ly. Because I've been putting minefields down as part of my normal strategy for standard defense. Minefields buy time, and time is the most important thing you can *have*. Yes, you'll have been doing sweeping operations, but the amount of dent you can make in that respect is limited without draining a significant amount of your offensive capability, in one way or another; if only via telegraphing of your intentions.

Now, how many worlds do I have within 36 or so LY of the world you just hit?

It's not unreasonable to assume you'll only have one or two worlds you *can* reach with that fleet.

If I guess wrong and you're striking further in, then a year goes by where there's no battle, because you'll not make it to another of my worlds in that time.

And now I can gate back to where I think you're going. Yeah, I might guess wrong, but it's immensely better than you think it is.

And my required-force estimate was based on the assumption I was going to be fighting you on one of my worlds, with a base (or more likely a dock) to assist.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't have access to stars! from here), but without use of the 8-slot, you only have 4x2 GP and 1x1 GP to use on your ship, yes? IIRC, that takes quite a lot of computing to out-init a missile cruiser, and that'll limit your firepower very significantly.

I wouldn't say cruisers beat that on a ship-for-ship basis, but it's starting to get close.

As an aside, I'll revise my previous statements to note that yes, a meta can beat out cruisers... although a missile meta can never use gates, even if you have an ally who has them.
(I did cost-analyses when discussing a small-hulls game with OWK. I came to the conclusion that the meta is truely scary, the rogue slightly outstrips the cruiser with juggs and significantly with dooms+, and the BC is better than the meta as a missile platform, but the meta as a beam platform with fluxes is absolutely grotesque.)

However, the strategetic disadvantage the HE suffers from a lack of gates is painful, and I damn well don't want to do all the MM required to play an HE properly.

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[Message index]

		Meta-morph By: The Taubat on Mon, 17 February 2003 10:07
		Re: Meta-morph By: Crusader on Mon, 17 February 2003 23:30
		Re: Meta-morph By: Ron on Tue, 18 February 2003 10:59
		Re: Meta-morph By: Crusader on Tue, 18 February 2003 14:44
		Re: Meta-morph By: Hetzer on Tue, 18 February 2003 01:09
		Re: Meta-morph By: freakyboy on Tue, 18 February 2003 03:28
		Re: Meta-morph By: gible on Tue, 18 February 2003 04:36
		Re: Meta-morph By: The Taubat on Tue, 18 February 2003 10:17
		Re: Meta-morph By: johng316 on Tue, 18 February 2003 12:32
		Re: Meta-morph By: The Taubat on Tue, 18 February 2003 14:10
		Re: Meta-morph By: freakyboy on Tue, 18 February 2003 16:59
		Re: Meta-morph By: zoid on Wed, 19 February 2003 03:28
		Re: Meta-morph By: Hetzer on Wed, 19 February 2003 15:05
		Re: Meta-morph By: The Taubat on Wed, 19 February 2003 22:24
		Re: Meta-morph By: zoid on Fri, 21 February 2003 01:06
		Re: Meta-morph By: BackBlast on Thu, 20 February 2003 03:04
		Re: Meta-morph By: freakyboy on Thu, 20 February 2003 03:34
		Re: Meta-morph By: johng316 on Thu, 20 February 2003 10:42
		Re: Meta-morph By: zoid on Fri, 21 February 2003 00:56
		Re: Meta-morph By: yucaf on Sat, 22 February 2003 11:59
		Re: Meta-morph By: The Taubat on Thu, 20 February 2003 11:36
		Re: Meta-morph By: freakyboy on Thu, 20 February 2003 16:13
		Re: Meta-morph By: johng316 on Thu, 20 February 2003 18:25
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Tue, 16 December 2003 19:12
		Re: Meta-morph By: bigdave on Wed, 24 December 2003 06:19
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Thu, 25 December 2003 00:12
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Thu, 25 December 2003 03:15
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Thu, 25 December 2003 03:53
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Thu, 25 December 2003 21:03
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Thu, 25 December 2003 21:49
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Fri, 26 December 2003 20:46
		Re: Meta-morph By: alexdstewart on Sun, 28 December 2003 18:00
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Sat, 03 January 2004 05:38
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Sat, 03 January 2004 14:03
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Sat, 03 January 2004 14:43
		Re: Meta-morph By: alexdstewart on Sat, 03 January 2004 16:43
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Sat, 03 January 2004 18:45
		Re: Meta-morph By: Nevski on Sat, 03 January 2004 20:50
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Sun, 04 January 2004 00:32
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Sun, 04 January 2004 01:53
		Re: Meta-morph By: Orca on Sun, 04 January 2004 02:38
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Sun, 04 January 2004 00:24
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Sun, 04 January 2004 01:52
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Sun, 04 January 2004 15:22
		Re: Meta-morph By: alexdstewart on Sun, 04 January 2004 21:12
		Re: Meta-morph By: LEit on Sun, 04 January 2004 21:25
		Re: Meta-morph By: alexdstewart on Mon, 05 January 2004 21:09
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Mon, 05 January 2004 21:35
		Re: Meta-morph By: alexdstewart on Tue, 06 January 2004 00:07
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Tue, 06 January 2004 00:14
		Re: Meta-morph By: alexdstewart on Tue, 06 January 2004 00:49
		Re: Meta-morph By: timmy on Tue, 06 January 2004 04:21
		Re: Meta-morph By: iztok on Tue, 06 January 2004 08:59
		Re: Meta-morph By: alexdstewart on Tue, 06 January 2004 15:10
		Re: Meta-morph By: timmy on Wed, 07 January 2004 21:31
		Re: Meta-morph By: alexdstewart on Thu, 08 January 2004 01:11
		Re: Meta-morph By: timmy on Thu, 08 January 2004 01:34
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Fri, 09 January 2004 02:50
		Re: Meta-morph By: Kotk on Fri, 09 January 2004 09:01
		Re: Meta-morph By: LEit on Fri, 09 January 2004 09:48
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Sat, 10 January 2004 11:10
		Re: Meta-morph By: iztok on Mon, 12 January 2004 02:18
		Re: Meta-morph By: Kotk on Mon, 12 January 2004 07:12
		Re: Meta-morph By: schpat on Fri, 23 January 2004 05:24
		Battle simulator (Re: Meta-morph) By: Micha on Fri, 23 January 2004 06:04
		Re: Battle simulator (Re: Meta-morph) By: iztok on Fri, 23 January 2004 10:11
		Re: Battle simulator (Re: Meta-morph) By: Micha on Fri, 23 January 2004 11:09
		Re: Meta-morph By: zoid on Sat, 03 January 2004 05:17
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Sat, 03 January 2004 05:36
		Re: Meta-morph By: zoid on Mon, 19 January 2004 21:54
		Re: Meta-morph By: iztok on Tue, 20 January 2004 09:00
		Re: Meta-morph By: zoid on Tue, 20 January 2004 20:01
		Re: Meta-morph By: iztok on Wed, 21 January 2004 04:53
		Re: Meta-morph By: LEit on Wed, 21 January 2004 09:33
		Re: Meta-morph By: mlaub on Wed, 21 January 2004 12:06
		Re: Meta-morph By: LEit on Wed, 21 January 2004 12:39
		Re: Meta-morph By: mlaub on Wed, 21 January 2004 14:04
		Re: Meta-morph By: Kotk on Wed, 21 January 2004 15:09
		Re: Meta-morph By: iztok on Fri, 23 January 2004 03:36
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Fri, 23 January 2004 03:50
		Re: Meta-morph By: iztok on Fri, 23 January 2004 09:43
		Re: Meta-morph By: Kotk on Sun, 25 January 2004 06:15
		Re: Meta-morph By: mlaub on Sun, 25 January 2004 16:19
		Re: Meta-morph By: Kotk on Mon, 26 January 2004 05:44
		Re: Meta-morph By: iztok on Sun, 25 January 2004 20:04
		Re: Meta-morph By: alexdstewart on Sun, 25 January 2004 21:11
		Re: Meta-morph By: iztok on Mon, 26 January 2004 05:26
		Re: Meta-morph By: alexdstewart on Sun, 25 January 2004 21:22
		Re: Meta-morph By: Kotk on Mon, 26 January 2004 06:32
		Re: Meta-morph By: iztok on Mon, 26 January 2004 09:48
		Re: Meta-morph By: Kotk on Mon, 26 January 2004 13:04
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Mon, 26 January 2004 17:11
		Re: Meta-morph By: iztok on Wed, 28 January 2004 02:34
		Re: Meta-morph By: Kotk on Wed, 28 January 2004 07:20
		Re: Meta-morph By: iztok on Wed, 28 January 2004 09:15
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Fri, 30 January 2004 04:00
		Re: Meta-morph By: Kotk on Fri, 30 January 2004 11:59
		Re: Meta-morph By: zoid on Fri, 30 January 2004 17:59
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Fri, 30 January 2004 20:18
		Re: Meta-morph By: Kotk on Sat, 31 January 2004 07:02
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Sat, 31 January 2004 07:31
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Fri, 30 January 2004 20:41
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Fri, 30 January 2004 20:19
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Wed, 21 January 2004 15:23
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Mon, 19 January 2004 23:27
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Tue, 20 January 2004 00:20
		Re: Meta-morph By: alexdstewart on Tue, 20 January 2004 20:18
		Re: Meta-morph By: timmy on Tue, 20 January 2004 21:02
		Re: Meta-morph By: zoid on Tue, 20 January 2004 22:09
		Re: Meta-morph By: zoid on Tue, 20 January 2004 22:40
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Wed, 21 January 2004 17:20
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Wed, 21 January 2004 18:13
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Wed, 21 January 2004 18:29
		Re: Meta-morph By: Sotek on Wed, 21 January 2004 22:35
		Re: Meta-morph By: multilis on Thu, 22 January 2004 00:12
		Re: Meta-morph By: Steve1 on Thu, 22 January 2004 10:26
		Re: Meta-morph By: Steve1 on Fri, 23 January 2004 10:53
		battle sim (Re: Meta-morph) By: Micha on Fri, 23 January 2004 10:59
		Re: Meta-morph By: mlaub on Fri, 23 January 2004 16:16
		Re: Meta-morph By: Steve1 on Fri, 23 January 2004 11:08
		Re: Meta-morph By: Steve1 on Fri, 23 January 2004 11:13

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