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Re: Game Idea: Empire Builders Thu, 06 July 2006 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA
 I'm pleased by the response to this game idea, thank you.

The main stumbling block seems to be the mechanism for conquered races to rebel, and I agree that the mechanism I've initially suggested lends itself to Ebay style sniping, as Kelzar put it. A couple of options have been suggested:
1 - Treat HWs as "King pieces", if you have population on a HW you control that race absolutely. I'm not wild about this option for a couple of reasons. One is that it requires the conquering empire to not only decisively defeat the conquered's battle fleet, but also bomb and storm their HW. This means that to conquer you have to really cripple the conquered empire and I'd prefer to allow the conquered to retain their HW and its productivity. Another reason for my reluctance to impliment this solution is that it doesn't really simulate nativist revolts, but just creates and easy to manage mechanism for other empires to re-conquered the subjugated empire.

2 - Have a third party "roll" for rebellion and then alter the rebelling race's turn to rebel (see Marduk's post above). This option does do an even better job of simulating nativist rebellion starting in one system and then spreading if not quickly crushed, but has the down side of requiring and increasingly active third party. This would probably mean that I would have to not play an empire in this game Confused

3 - An option has not been discussed is to simply do away with the rebelling simulation entirely. This would be the simplest and would still allow one race to surrender to another and so the conquering empire grows in power and complexity. The orthodox Stars! community view on such conquering is that it gives the conqueror such an enormous advantage that it is unbalancing and so it is viewed generally as cheating, or at least unethical play. Obviously that would not be the case in a game specifically designed with this in mind, but I wonder what you all think about the unbalancing aspects of such a clear cut scenario.

Some have wondered if races would bother to surrender if there is no structure in place to require their surrender when a specified event or value is reached. Others wonder if a race would bother with conquering another race, versus eradicating them, given the increased complexity and potential for inconvenient rebellion.

My experience says that players of defeated races tend drop out of the game fairly early. For instance in the game Paranoia which just ended we had three races drop/suicide while they were still very viable races, including one that was in second (but falling) when real life combined with the in game pressure to cause him to drop. Also, in my many years of playing Stars! I've been quite successful in talking players into surrendering to me, either allowing me to directly play their race or turn the race over to a third party of my choosing, but either way giving me the passwords so that I could ensure that my will was being done Twisted Evil So, I don't think that it will generally be a problem to get defeated races to surrender or to get conquering races to accept surrender. Of course there will be some who ascribe to the philosophy of "Never give up, never surrender!" but that just adds flavor and also will tend reward players with good diplomacy skills.

Again thanks for the replys and I look forward to more discussion.

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