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Re: Unofficial patch...

Tue, 07 March 2006 09:33

Madman

Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 228
Registered: November 2003
Location: New Zealand

PricklyPea wrote on Tue, 07 March 2006 06:32

A previous incarnation of my mod had CA with 50% terraform cost. With TT that equates to 35 res and is more or less the same as insta-forming.

Is saying '35 res is more or less the same as instaforming' looking at a playtest or guessing?

I don't have the mod to play with, but looking at some numbers:

When I colonize a planet, I normally dump about 50K pop on it (usually a little less, but say 50K for argument). If I grab a -10% yellow, that's going to take about 10 years to terraform it to a green (against 20 years for a non-CA), or 7 years for a TT-CA. That's just to green, not to fully terraformed. After it gets to green the pop will start growing and the terraforming rate will speed up. This is several years of no factories, mines, defenses or ships being built. Alternatively, build some factories first (which I'd do for a yellow this deep), and you've still got a fairly long time to get such a planet productive.

OA's _could_ help this dramatically, but they've got to be built (expensive at the start of the game when the ramp up is most useful), moved around (again, engines at the start of the game aren't always great), are very vulnerable (right through the game, not just at the start), and lots of micromanagement. If you want to use OAs for most terraforming, that's an extra colonization expense, and a lot of effort every time a new terraforming tech is reached (unless you leave an OA at each planet).

All this removes the main current CA advantage of 'dump some colonists on a planet that can be made green, and whoosh - instantly productive).

This suggests to me that a 50% terraforming cost for CA is quite weak enough until demonstrated otherwise. Remember this was the CA that was considered too weak and improved (although without sufficient time to see how weak it really was).

it would be interesting if someone could testbed an instaforming CA vs. a 50% terraforming cost CA vs. a roughly similar JOAT.

Let's weaken the CA, not gut it.

[Updated on: Wed, 08 March 2006 00:17]

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		Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Sun, 12 February 2006 12:37
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: iztok on Sun, 12 February 2006 13:21
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Sun, 12 February 2006 15:20
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Sun, 12 February 2006 16:21
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Sun, 12 February 2006 17:57
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Sun, 12 February 2006 18:16
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Sun, 12 February 2006 18:49
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Mon, 13 February 2006 06:57
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Ptolemy on Mon, 13 February 2006 21:15
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: LEit on Mon, 13 February 2006 21:28
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: iztok on Tue, 14 February 2006 08:46
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Tue, 14 February 2006 22:12
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Tue, 14 February 2006 22:14
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kelzar on Tue, 14 February 2006 23:56
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Wed, 15 February 2006 00:50
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kelzar on Wed, 15 February 2006 08:13
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Wed, 15 February 2006 02:12
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: gible on Wed, 15 February 2006 04:00
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Wed, 15 February 2006 05:32
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Wed, 15 February 2006 05:34
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Wed, 15 February 2006 05:46
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Wed, 15 February 2006 05:54
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: iztok on Wed, 15 February 2006 07:46
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Wed, 15 February 2006 08:39
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Wed, 15 February 2006 10:19
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: LEit on Wed, 15 February 2006 10:47
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: mazda on Wed, 15 February 2006 10:48
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Wed, 15 February 2006 13:18
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Wed, 15 February 2006 13:51
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Wed, 15 February 2006 15:10
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Wed, 15 February 2006 15:25
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Wed, 15 February 2006 16:36
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Wed, 15 February 2006 16:39
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: mlaub on Wed, 15 February 2006 12:51
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Zoiker on Wed, 15 February 2006 22:26
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Thu, 16 February 2006 04:32
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Micha on Wed, 15 February 2006 07:22
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Zoiker on Wed, 15 February 2006 22:28
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Thu, 16 February 2006 04:17
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Thu, 16 February 2006 04:42
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Thu, 16 February 2006 08:01
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: wizard on Thu, 16 February 2006 11:07
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Thu, 16 February 2006 11:56
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Thu, 16 February 2006 19:31
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: gible on Fri, 17 February 2006 07:24
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Fri, 17 February 2006 11:12
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: crr65536 on Fri, 17 February 2006 12:10
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Micha on Fri, 17 February 2006 14:54
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Fri, 17 February 2006 15:20
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Sat, 18 February 2006 17:15
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Sat, 18 February 2006 21:22
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Sun, 19 February 2006 12:35
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Dogthinkers on Sun, 19 February 2006 22:42
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: gible on Mon, 20 February 2006 04:07
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Thu, 02 March 2006 13:51
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Thu, 02 March 2006 15:28
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: c64k on Thu, 02 March 2006 21:17
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Ptolemy on Fri, 03 March 2006 01:31
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: mazda on Fri, 03 March 2006 08:32
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Fri, 03 March 2006 22:46
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Ptolemy on Fri, 03 March 2006 23:31
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Sat, 04 March 2006 01:00
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Ptolemy on Sat, 04 March 2006 01:16
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Sat, 04 March 2006 02:09
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Ptolemy on Sat, 04 March 2006 02:40
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Sat, 04 March 2006 09:55
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Marduk on Fri, 10 March 2006 13:56
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: gible on Fri, 10 March 2006 18:43
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: c64k on Fri, 10 March 2006 21:52
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Marduk on Fri, 10 March 2006 22:31
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Fri, 10 March 2006 23:57
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Ptolemy on Sat, 11 March 2006 00:33
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Sat, 11 March 2006 01:17
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Ptolemy on Sat, 11 March 2006 02:01
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Fri, 03 March 2006 22:40
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: c64k on Sat, 04 March 2006 21:17
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Mon, 06 March 2006 11:59
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: PricklyPea on Mon, 06 March 2006 12:32
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Mon, 06 March 2006 12:43
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: mlaub on Mon, 06 March 2006 16:49
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Tue, 07 March 2006 09:33
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: icebird on Tue, 07 March 2006 20:26
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: PricklyPea on Sat, 04 March 2006 05:00
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: PricklyPea on Mon, 06 March 2006 13:52
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: icebird on Mon, 06 March 2006 14:01
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: rowenstin on Sat, 11 March 2006 02:11
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Sat, 11 March 2006 18:36
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Captain Maim on Sat, 11 March 2006 19:32
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: crr65536 on Sun, 12 March 2006 13:27
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Captain Maim on Sun, 12 March 2006 20:05
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Sun, 12 March 2006 21:15
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Dogthinkers on Sun, 12 March 2006 22:13
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: crr65536 on Mon, 13 March 2006 00:04
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Mon, 13 March 2006 05:08
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: gible on Mon, 13 March 2006 06:16
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Mon, 13 March 2006 07:50
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Mon, 13 March 2006 11:28
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kelzar on Mon, 13 March 2006 13:07
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Sat, 01 April 2006 00:09
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Sat, 01 April 2006 17:53
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: wizard on Mon, 03 April 2006 16:43
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: multilis on Mon, 03 April 2006 21:53
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: iztok on Tue, 04 April 2006 01:33
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: crr65536 on Sat, 01 April 2006 14:44
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: gible on Mon, 13 March 2006 03:10
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Mon, 13 March 2006 07:41
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: PricklyPea on Wed, 05 April 2006 12:30
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: iztok on Thu, 06 April 2006 02:21
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: LEit on Thu, 06 April 2006 11:11
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Thu, 06 April 2006 13:12
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: PricklyPea on Thu, 06 April 2006 14:57
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Kotk on Thu, 06 April 2006 16:17
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Marduk on Thu, 06 April 2006 17:35
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: crr65536 on Thu, 06 April 2006 19:04
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: PricklyPea on Thu, 06 April 2006 19:34
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Marduk on Fri, 07 April 2006 03:38
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: PricklyPea on Fri, 07 April 2006 08:13
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Fri, 07 April 2006 15:05
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Marduk on Sat, 08 April 2006 13:29
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Tue, 11 April 2006 12:40
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: LEit on Tue, 11 April 2006 15:09
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Wed, 12 April 2006 00:49
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Wed, 12 April 2006 10:31
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: NingunOtro on Wed, 12 April 2006 11:20
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Wed, 12 April 2006 12:42
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: NingunOtro on Wed, 12 April 2006 12:52
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Wed, 12 April 2006 15:31
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: NingunOtro on Wed, 12 April 2006 16:15
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Wed, 12 April 2006 17:21
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: NingunOtro on Wed, 12 April 2006 17:54
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Wed, 12 April 2006 19:38
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: NingunOtro on Wed, 12 April 2006 22:14
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Thu, 13 April 2006 15:30
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: Madman on Wed, 12 April 2006 00:45
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Wed, 12 April 2006 09:25
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: mazda on Wed, 12 April 2006 10:38
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: m.a@stars on Wed, 12 April 2006 12:38
		Re: Unofficial patch... By: wizard on Mon, 13 March 2006 04:27

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