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DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond

Sat, 18 October 2003 21:50

overworked

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 403
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Starting something here as an offshoot of a discussion in the WM forum.
(Summarizing a bit...)
Saw a posting about using the DD as chaff, and questioned the efficiency of such a move. The response was that the DD could be shielded and cheaply armored to the point of requiring multiple cap missile hits to kill. To me that's either not chaff, or chaff that's too expensive to be worth while.

And I was also asked what use beyond chaff I made of the Frigate hull. Thus, here we are. What use is made of the DD (destroyer) and FF (frigate) hull in terms of *new* designs once the BBs are king of the main battle fleet?

I get first shot of course. Very Happy

Destroyer hull:
a. Sweeper - Armor and shield to take a minehit by itself. Some gatlings or other beam for clearing mines. A fairly expendable ship. I'll end up 'crashing' minefields as much as I slow sweep fields since I'll often risk Warp 7 or Warp 8 runs with these ships. A JOAT race would also get scanning from it.

I tend to deploy them in groups with a "backstop" force - usually a few mainfleet warships and SFX, and possibly some of my own minelayers. A haven for pursued ships to run to. And in a contested area my sweepers will tend to deploy using "yo-yo" tactics. Run in at high speed and then quickly run back out.

And to be honest I don't use DDs for much other than this.

Frigate hull:
a. Minelayer. Unless I'm a SD race. I'm not that much of a Galleon minelayer fan since those often can't gate. A JOAT will also get scanning from these.

b. Scout. Expendable scanner ship; especially for orbit checks when I have NAS. Galleons and Nubians will eventually replace these - especially with pen-scans available.

c. Chaff. Though I often continue to use scout chaff for entire games. The extra fuel of the FF hull is a help though. You just have to be careful here around Con 20 if you're using unjammed BBs - your FF chaff's attractiveness suddenly drops here due to miniturization.

d. Dampner ship (SD Only) Good hull for hauling one of these into a battle, or have it not show up. Depends on which is more beneficial for your fleet. Note that many hull types can fulfill this function.

===== have at it folks ====

Last section: DD as chaff - and armoring them up to require more hits to kill. Uses max tech here for comparisons since I have such a game at hand to pump designs into.

FF (the standard) Costs 5 res; 2 I 2 B 2 G - has 45 dp.
QJ5 engine, x-ray laser, nothing else.
1 missile, 1 kill. Beamers kill.

DD - (QJ5, x-ray laser)
Costs 11 res; 5 I 2 B 2 G - has 200 dp.
1 ARM still kills this, and over double Iron and Res cost... plus it's a heavier hull requiring more fuel to move. But it also carries more fuel.

So, we need to soup up the DD to make it take 2+ hits to kill.

That's a minimum of 525 dp (normal damage of an ARM - and part of it has to be a shield). And having a shield adjusts the attractiveness formula of chaff as well - making it a *lot* less attractive to missiles. So your mainline ships might start drawing fire all the sooner; unless you increase the bora and Resource costs of the chaff. Sort of a Catch-22 soon ensues.

Super Chaff DD 1 - QJ5, x-ray, 1 Organic, 1 Gorilla shield.
Cost: 22 res; 6 I, 2 B, 6 G 550 dp (375 armor + 175 shield)

IF you have RS LRT you need two organic and a Gorilla. Add 5 res and another 1 G to the cost.
Takes two missiles to kill - but costs are more than 3x greater than the FF chaff except Boranium.

Super Chaff DD 2 - QJ5, x-ray, 2 Organic, 1 Wolverine shield.
Cost: 22 res; 6 I, 2 B, 5 G 610 dp (550 armor + 60 shield)
Still costs 3x the FF cost in Iron and resources. Probably the two areas you want to spend the *least* in when building chaff.

Going to armors heavier than Organic will massively increase the Resource and Iron costs even further. Not to mention making it heavier and thus less fuel efficient and harder to overcloak. Confused

Once you start upgrading the engine, weapons, etc. to make the ship more usefu ...

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[Message index]

		DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: overworked on Sat, 18 October 2003 21:50
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: freakyboy on Sun, 19 October 2003 07:51
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: iztok on Wed, 22 October 2003 07:23
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Micha on Sun, 19 October 2003 18:14
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: iztok on Mon, 20 October 2003 03:03
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Dark_Traveller on Mon, 20 October 2003 18:15
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Labyndor on Mon, 20 October 2003 19:42
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: zoid on Tue, 21 October 2003 02:59
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Dark_Traveller on Tue, 21 October 2003 11:29
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Ashlyn on Tue, 21 October 2003 13:01
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Dark_Traveller on Tue, 21 October 2003 15:55
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Orca on Thu, 23 October 2003 13:52
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Dark_Traveller on Thu, 23 October 2003 16:41
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Zathras on Thu, 23 October 2003 20:21
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: zoid on Thu, 23 October 2003 22:30
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: overworked on Fri, 24 October 2003 08:01
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Orca on Fri, 24 October 2003 11:39
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: zoid on Tue, 21 October 2003 22:07
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Dark_Traveller on Sun, 19 October 2003 21:07
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: freakyboy on Fri, 24 October 2003 12:02
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Micha on Fri, 24 October 2003 16:45
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Sinla on Fri, 24 October 2003 22:36
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Zathras on Fri, 24 October 2003 18:25
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: freakyboy on Fri, 24 October 2003 19:28
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: freakyboy on Sat, 25 October 2003 07:50
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: Sgt. Bulldog on Wed, 29 October 2003 09:27
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: zoid on Wed, 29 October 2003 18:41
		Re: DDs and FFs: Small hulls in the BB era and beyond By: iztok on Thu, 30 October 2003 07:02

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