Concept: **Restricted scanners game**

The idea is to increase paranoia by minimising knowledge of the other races. It also should dramatically encourage offensive play. It will be possible (at significant cost in terms of fleet numbers) to provide a minimal scanner net to protect your inner worlds, but you will still be highly vulnerable to cloakers.

------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------

Race Wizard:
PRT: AR, JOAT, SD and PP are all banned due to inherant scanning abilities. CA banned as monster econ.
LRT: NAS trait banned
Hab: 3i banned

PRT specific restrictions (for balancing):
IS speed trap mines are not permitted
IT must remove all colonists from it's extra start star for one year on or before turn 2410. They can of course recolonise afterwards.
SS is the only race permitted to build Super-Stealth Cloaks (i.e. other races can only bulid the most basic Stealth Cloak.)

Planetary scanner restriction:
Planetary scanners are only permitted on HW stars. You are not permitted to build any new planetary scanners. If you capture a (HW) star you *are* permitted to build a scanner there.

Ship scanner restrictions:
Battle scanner, Rhino scanner and Pick Pocket scanner are the ONLY permitted ship scanners at the start of the game.
Mole scanner is permitted on and after turn 40 (by which time you should have cloaks...)
No other scanners are permitted.
[update: MT item - Multi-contained-munition is NOT permitted]
[update: MT item - Mega-Poly-Shell (80/40 armour) is permitted after 2450]
[update: MT item - Langston Shell (50/25, shield) is permitted at any time]


Approximate max scanning table:
Hull \ Scanner . . Rhino . Mole . . . Pick Pocket
Scout (1) . . . . . 50 . . . . 100 . . . 80
Frigate (3) . . . . . 66 . . . . 132 . . . 105
Rogue (5) . . . . . 75 . . . . 150 . . . 120
Galleon (8 ) . . . . 84 . . . . 168 . . . 135
Metamorph (17) . 102 . . . 203 . . . n/a
Nub (36) . . . . . . 122 . . . 245 . . . 196

Minefields:
Standard minefields are permitted. Speed trap minefields banned.

------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------

Universe:
4-6 players = Small universe, normal density (around 128 stars)
7-9 players = Medium universe, sparse density (around 216 stars)
10+ players = Medium universe, normal density (around 288 stars)

Global settings:
ACCBBS = on
Random events = on
PPS = off at start, but enabled from 2480 (using victory condition)
Starting positions: "further"

Cheats:
Chaff permitted
Split fleet permitted
All other known (and unknown) cheats and exploits are banned. If you are not sure if something is within the rules, mail me.

Victory: Solo victory by highest score at turn 2500. PPS will be enabled from 2480.

Game will be hosted on autohost.
Game will use donjon's ranking system, probably at level 3 (LI).

Turn gens will be set to generate as soon as all turns are submitted, with a maximum of 48 hours. On the 22nd December turn gens will be reduced to 72 hour intervals (max) until the 2nd January. If a player does not submit for 2 gens in a row they will be set to inactive. If a player does not submit for 5 gens in a row a replacement will be sought immediately.

The host will be playing.

Please send PASSWORDED race files to me at dogthinker AT gmail DOT com with the subject line "dark". Please do NOT send me your password. Please check your race carefully to make sure if fits the description above. Once the game has started you will be REQUIRED to send your passwords to a neutral 3rd party (donjon). If you have to change your password during the game you must inform the nuetral 3rd party immediately and provide the new password. All passwords will be made available to all players at the end of the game, so please don't choose a password you commonly use in other games.

If anybody is suspected of cheating the neutral 3rd party (donjon) will be asked check the relevant turn files.

Phew.

Good luck.


[update: fixed typo - PPS is on from 2480.]
[update: clarification - if you manage to capture a HW star, you are permitted to build a planetary scanner there]
[update: increased IT penalty, by reducing the time limit to 2410]
[update: MT item - Multi-contained-munition is NOT permitted]
[update: MT item - Mega-Poly-Shell (80/40 armour) is permitted after 2450]
[update: MT item - Langston Shell (50/25, shield) is permitted at any time]

[Updated on: Thu, 30 September 2004 22:33]

Report message to a moderator

Quote:

IT must remove all colonists from it's extra start star for one year on or before turn 2415. They can of course recolonise afterwards.

You might want to ban IT from re-colonising for a few years. At present all they have to do is gate a couple of MF's/Privateers and a coloniser of some sort, lift the pop for one year and re-colonise the year after. If this was done closer to 2415, a gate could be rebuilt almost immediately due to plenty of facs/mines being built in the meanwhile.

In the period leading up to 2415, the gate would have been used rather handily to colonise other worlds in the vicinity of the secondary world.
It would hardly make any difference to impose such a penalty on an IT.

Quote:

SS is the only race permitted to build Super-Stealth Cloaks (i.e. other races can only bulid the most basic Stealth Cloak.)

Presumedly SS can also utilise the Ultra stealth cloaks?

Quote:

PPS = off at start, but enabled from 2485 (using victory condition)

Quote:

PPS will be enabled from 2480.

I think I spotted a typo

Quote:

Starting positions: "further"

IMHO "distant" is better.
"Further" will still give a couple of players a small amount of extra real estate.

Quote:

Planetary scanner restriction: Planetary scanners are only permitted on HW stars. You are not permitted to build any new planetary scanners.

How about this scenario:
It's late, you have to be up early in the morning, and you're feeling very tired right now. All you want to do is quickly finish your turn for this year and then head straight to bed.
Next evening you check out your new turn file and discover to your horror that you accidentally built a couple of planetary scanners on other planets

Of course planetary scanners can't be removed once built, so would the penalty be to force the player to upload all colonists from the planet?
Not a bad penalty, but what if someone was going to lose the planet anyway and decided to gain some free intel?
<sorry, just trying to be the devils advocate>

[Updated on: Thu, 30 September 2004 05:32]

Report message to a moderator

Steve1 wrote on Thu, 30 September 2004 12:17

Quote: IT must remove all colonists from it's extra start star for one year on or before turn 2415. They can of course recolonise afterwards. You might want to ban IT from re-colonising for a few years. At present all they have to do is gate a couple of MF's/Privateers and a coloniser of some sort, lift the pop for one year and re-colonise the year after. If this was done closer to 2415, a gate could be rebuilt almost immediately due to plenty of facs/mines being built in the meanwhile. In the period leading up to 2415, the gate would have been used rather handily to colonise other worlds in the vicinity of the secondary world. It would hardly make any difference to impose such a penalty on an IT.

I thought the idea was to get rid of planetary scanner on secondary world, not gate.

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Hi!

Steve1 wrote on Thu, 30 September 2004 11:17

Of course planetary scanners can't be removed once built, so would the penalty be to force the player to upload all colonists from the planet? Not a bad penalty, but what if someone was going to lose the planet anyway and decided to gain some free intel?

Scanning happens after WP-1 tasks, so the new and lost scanner shouldn't give any info. And finding the scanner is rather easily for a 3rd party with passwords.
Since there are random events I'd rather ask what are the rules with the MT items that have built-in scanner (MPS, MCM, Langston shell)?
BR, Iztok

Report message to a moderator

Quote:

Scanning happens after WP-1 tasks, so the new and lost scanner shouldn't give any info. And finding the scanner is rather easily for a 3rd party with passwords.

Yes but I think you might have missed my point there:
Let's say player A is due to be attacked by player B and is most likely going to lose Planet X in a couple of years.
Since a pen scanner was built at planet X, this scanner will allow player A to see player B's ships and planets in the vicinity.
Player A then decides to perform a counter strike at a couple of player B's weaker planets. Player A gets a free look at player B's strengths and weaknesses and is only forced by the host to vacate a planet that he was going to lose anyway.

My point was really that you will need a more severe penalty on a player for accidentally (or not!!!) building a planetary scanner, than just making them vacate the planet (there was no penalty suggested by the host for such a thing, but I was merely pointing out that it might have to be fairly harsh if it occurs).

Report message to a moderator

Dogthinkers wrote on Thu, 30 September 2004 04:05

Concept: **Restricted scanners game** Planetary scanner restriction: Planetary scanners are only permitted on HW stars. You are not permitted to build any new planetary scanners.

I think to make things clear, you should state explicitely what happens if HW is lost.

Is the new owner allowed to build a planetary scanner there?

If original owner retakes it, is he allowed to build a new one?

Carn

Report message to a moderator

Hi!

Steve1 wrote on Thu, 30 September 2004 13:23

My point was really that you will need a more severe penalty on a player for accidentally (or not!!!) building a planetary scanner, than just making them vacate the planet

I know you're playing devil's advocate, but I'm playing honorable player's advocate. Besides, bad reputation goes much furthere then a good one. Isn't the AKA "Cheater" a good one detterent of being dishonorable?
BR, Iztok

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Quote:

I know you're playing devil's advocate, but I'm playing honorable player's advocate. Besides, bad reputation goes much furthere then a good one. Isn't the AKA "Cheater" a good one detterent of being dishonorable?

Yes very good point, but if someone did this accidentally, as per the situation as described previously in this thread, and then you accused them of Cheating and/or being of disreputable character, then that would be unreasonable .... Yes?

If you consider the amount of mistakes you've made throughout games over the ages, things that you had absolutely no intention of doing, but then you look at your turn file and go huh???
Sometimes it might even seem like the Gremlins have got in and deliberately sabotaged your game

So the point being is that it's possible for someone to make a mistake and how are you to know whether it really is an error or not???

Therefore since you can't tell whether this hypothetical person made a mistake or did it deliberately, it's probably best to have a suitable punishment that will most certainly disadvantage them either way. Whether the host decides what's to be done at the time or whether it's stated upfront, is totally up to the host, but since he's also playing in the game then perhaps stating the penalty upfront is more advisable.

[Updated on: Fri, 01 October 2004 02:57]

Report message to a moderator

Steve1 wrote on Fri, 01 October 2004 16:54

Therefore since you can't tell whether this hypothetical person made a mistake or did it deliberately, it's probably best to have a suitable punishment that will most certainly disadvantage them either way. Whether the host decides what's to be done at the time or whether it's stated upfront, is totally up to the host, but since he's also playing in the game then perhaps stating the penalty upfront is more advisable.

2c well spent, wise words indeed.

I would, of course, defer to a third party decision in any disputed case. They would be the ones checking the turn files, so would be the most appropriate to decide punishment.

In the hypothetical case of planetary scanner building, then if no advantage was gained then I would suggest that lifting the pop off for a turn is enough. If strategic advantage has been gained, then I would suggest blocking the player from uploading for the next 1 or 2 turns, to prevent them from acting on the information.

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator

Sinla wrote on Fri, 01 October 2004 17:41

What about the robber baron? I think I read in the other thread that it is banned, but I don't see that mentioned here...

Quote:

Ship scanner restrictions: Battle scanner, Rhino scanner and Pick Pocket scanner are the ONLY permitted ship scanners at the start of the game. Mole scanner is permitted on and after turn 40 (by which time you should have cloaks...) No other scanners are permitted.

You see, it is mentioned

wizard

Report message to a moderator

What do you think of the game concept?[ 12 votes ]
1.	This idea sucks, I wouldn't play it if you paid me...	1 / 8%
2.	I'd rather play vanilla stars	7 / 58%
3.	I want to play, but I've got to wait a couple of weeks....	4 / 33%
4.	Sounds great, I don't know why I didn't sign up already!	0 / 0%

Don't all jump in at once...

Going by the response here and in the bar, I was expecting to get at least one sign up... Here's a quick poll to try to find out what people think...

If you want to play, but haven't completed your race yet, let me know so I don't can the game idea

Report message to a moderator

make that months..not weeks

Report message to a moderator

[Updated on: Sun, 10 October 2004 14:32]

Report message to a moderator

I'm not worried that anybody will take CA because it is banned in the game description I'm probably going to go for IS - pop-drop heaven.

I agree that having minefields could make the game too defensive. However, they won't help you to know where the enemy is (unless they are foolish enough to sweep it, or actually *hit* the minefield.)

Quote:

who throughs dice at an assault, simply assuming your opponent will not have a fleet waiting to kill you?

You can use chaff to ping enemy planets (not just the one you intend to attack, of course.) Once you get close to the enemy worlds it shouldn't be too hard to see what is in the immediate surrounds. The main idea here is that the strategic scale fleet movements will be much harder to detect, not the tactical.

IMHO non-aggressive player will do poorly in this game, because an aggressive player will be able to surprise him and bomb out stars at will. I tell you what, if you join I'll play aggressively so you can demonstrate to me that I am wrong

Report message to a moderator

Since there's a little interest, I'll not can the game. If you want to play then send me an email or a pm to register your interest. Once we have enough players together I'll check back with everybody and we'll get it going.

Report message to a moderator

Canned due to lack of interest.
Feel free to lock the thread.

I guess this at least saves me the trouble of hosting the game

Report message to a moderator

Report message to a moderator