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Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Bar » NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal"
icon3.gif  NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Fri, 30 April 2004 12:01 Go to next message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land
Greetings and felicitations to all.

Being one who is an incurable "ponderer", I was pondering just the other day about how to help promote this wonderful game to our beginners, and figured that me hosting a beginners game would be a useful start. Spoke to another Stars! fanatic and two and came up with the following idea. Idea So, take a gander and ponder the possibilities. Let me know what you think. Let us network and dialogue to our little hearts' content. Rolling Eyes I do go on, don't I?

The premise behind the title, "All Things Being Equal" is that race design is limited by leftover points depending on PRT chosen so that "econ" advantaged races are penalized more than the others in an attempt to balance the PRTs in Stars! This idea is first credited to Orca and Omnivore, back at least a couple of years back, when they were testing the idea using Blitz games (so they could get their testing done quicker).

I've always been intrigued by the idea. Perhaps some of you are also.

It looks like this:
AR 50
SS/PP 100
WM/HE 125
SD 137
IT/IS 150
JOAT 175
CA 200

Of course, only the first 50 points are applied to whatever you happen to choose for your race, so a lot of points are "wasted" in that sense.

The only other modification is if you are playing in a "tiny" universe, where WM is set to having 150 points leftover instead of 125 to help balance their early weapons tech advantage.

I would also set this game up to be a "Ranked" game. I would be a non-playing host, so I would be inspecting all race files for compliance before the game starts. I would require passwords for all race files. Players who change their race files without telling me the new password would be "banned" from the game. Mad

Now, the rest of the game settings are up for discussion. Well, up to a point. I'm thinking of setting the game up along these general guidelines:

Universe Size: Medium
Density: To be determined, possibly by # of players
Starting Distance: Farther
NO Beginner Maximum Minerals
NO Slower Tech Advances
YES Accelerated BBS Play
NO No Random Events
NO Computer Players Form Alliances (Won't be none)
NO Public Player Scores
?? Galaxy Clumping

Victory conditions at this point in time are in my mind set to a "Consensus Win", or "Last-Man Standing", whichever comes first. This is negotiable with player demand.

Well, actually just about everything about the game settings are negotiable at this point, which is why I'm in this post instead of the other forum. I ain't ready to go there yet. I would like to see the interest level in this game before we start advertising it and taking on players.

Also, I would be available to ask questions concerning race design before the game begins. This could become a "mentored" game if I have enough mentors to volunteer, although this is not a game with the mentors actually playing. I thought I would leave the fun and time-consuming parts to the beginners. Smile


So, let the questions and respones begin! I will be posting polls as needed as we go along. I'm hoping for a little help from Staz, too. Right, Staz? Deal

Your Friendly, Neighborhood Stars! Crusader Angel

P.S. - My thanks to Orca and Staz for allowing this game to actually get to this point. Not Worthy
...




Nothing for now.

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icon14.gif  Re: NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Fri, 30 April 2004 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carn is currently offline Carn

 
Officer Cadet 4th Year

Messages: 284
Registered: May 2003
Is it telepathy?
I had the same game idea 3 weeks ago!

No, we probably read the same thread, where someone came up with those numbers.

Still good, because it could be interesting and i have only 5 game ideas left to choose from, if i find the time to host a game.

I would be interested to play, but i already have two games and, bad luck, Monday i start in my new job.

Just a few thoughts, as one could expect race designs are not equally affected. As far as i know "optimal" HG production setting are around 1/1000 , 12,8,16,checked, 10,3,17, while HP goes for 1/2500 , 15,7,21,checked, 11,3,20. The HP setting is 63 points cheaper and to take 200 points away from HP setting is relative easy, cost from 7 to 8, number of mines and factories both to 18, voila 208 points saved. With HG the choice is harder, i end up with 1/1000 , 12, 9 ,14, not checked, 10,3,13, maybe one could increase mine costs, but still the HG setting with 200 points less is farer away from "optimum", than the modified HP setting.
Of course one could take points elsewhere, yet its still a sign that HP is less penalized than HG.
From my limited experience with race design i would say that HG is more penalized than -f or HP and -f is a bit more penalized than HP. Come to think about it, that might be just fine, as generally spoken HG is stronger than -f is stronger than HP.

Oh, and we all have to feel deeply sorry, for those poor 4% HE players, who will weep bitterly Crying or Very Sad Crying or Very Sad when they have to make the hard choice between dropping mine eff to a useless 17-18, increasing fac cost to horrible 7 or only taking 3 techs cheap. Shocked Shocked Shocked

Obviously, 3-4% HE are barely affected by a 125 point penalty, which could be right, since they are not that strong.

Greetings,

Carn


[Updated on: Fri, 30 April 2004 13:32]

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Re: NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Fri, 30 April 2004 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land
Carn wrote on Fri, 30 April 2004 12:31

Is it telepathy?
I had the same game idea 3 weeks ago!



1.) No. It is just that genius pulls ideas from the same ether.

b.) No. Because I have this bet with Nostradamus that the future will prove that there is no such thing as telepathy; and he has already paid up.

III.) No. You have a back door Trojan on your system and I saw you playing around with the idea. Thought I would steal your thunder.

quatre.) No. You are running a Micro$oft operating system and EVERYONE knows what you are doing on your system.

fünf.) Speak up! I can't hear you over the voices in my head!

WTH

ROFL

Angel



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Re: NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Fri, 30 April 2004 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land

Interest Level[ 10 votes ]
1. Yes, I'm very interested! 3 / 30%
2. No way, MAN. Too much going on! 6 / 60%
3. Uh, what? 1 / 10%

This will be the first, and quite possibly the last, poll in this thread. It all boils down to this one guys, so make it count.
Hi

The Crusader Angel


[Updated on: Fri, 30 April 2004 17:44]




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Re: NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Fri, 30 April 2004 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SlaveOfSeven is currently offline SlaveOfSeven

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class

Messages: 58
Registered: January 2004
Location: England
I'd love to play, but if I take on any more games my head will explode. That wouldn't necessarily impair my playing "ability", but it would be a bit unsightly, so I'll have to pass on this one.

[Updated on: Fri, 30 April 2004 20:20]

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Re: NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Sat, 01 May 2004 06:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
I like the idea to give "disadvantages" to powerful PRTs, also leftoverpoints are a good thing to start with.

What if you do not define the points beforehand, but instead run an auction on the PRTs and give it to the one who is willing to pay the highest leftover advantage points?

Needs some work to set up the game and keep track, but seems a very fair and interesting way to start...

Just an idea

Robert



2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Sat, 01 May 2004 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Carn is currently offline Carn

 
Officer Cadet 4th Year

Messages: 284
Registered: May 2003
Robert wrote on Sat, 01 May 2004 12:51



What if you do not define the points beforehand, but instead run an auction on the PRTs and give it to the one who is willing to pay the highest leftover advantage points?

Needs some work to set up the game and keep track, but seems a very fair and interesting way to start...

Just an idea

Robert


More telepathy!

Though i had that idea for a game, where everyone can choose an MT toy and gets that toy from a host race as soon as he reaches the required tech.

For PRTs an auction would be nice as well, but then its nothing for beginners, because to decide how much a PRT is worth for your style of play and level of skill, you should have played the PRT at least once in multi player.

Also would mean every PRT can only be chosen once by the one willing to pay the highest price. But would open interesting possibilities, like increasing price for PRT you don't want to play.

Another way would be the highest leftover advantage points is allowed to choose first and so on.

But in any case auction might be to complicated for beginners.

Greetings,
Carn

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Re: NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Mon, 03 May 2004 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land
Carn wrote on Sat, 01 May 2004 07:44

But in any case auction might be to complicated for beginners.


What are you talking about? It's too complicated for me! Embarassed Laughing
Maybe I need to get myself ranked again. (And comments from the peanut gallery are not appreciated at this point, even if I did leave myself wide open) Laughing

Angel



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Re: NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Mon, 03 May 2004 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land
Only 5 votes so far, and only 4 actually count. Rolling Eyes It's starting to look as if this game idea may be put on the shelf for a few months until some players get free for a game again.

I gave this poll a week to play out, so we will revisit it again later this week. Meanwhile, are there any more advanced players who would be interested in playing out this game idea? I could host an intermediate game as easy as a beginner one.

Right? Sun is out

The Crusader Angel



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Re: NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Mon, 03 May 2004 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ForceUser is currently offline ForceUser

 
Lt. Junior Grade
Stars! Nova developer
Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 383
Registered: January 2004
Location: South Africa
I would love playing this game (As an AR ofcourse Wink but 4 games and hosting 1 with an entire tournament planned is streching it a bit so Shelving it for a few month (Years Twisted Evil ) would be nice.

ForceUser, The Streched



"There are two types of people in the world. AR players and non-AR players" Nick Fraser

Working on some new stuff: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/stars-nova/index.php?t itle=Graphics
And the Mentor Database www.groep7.co.za/Mentor/ ZOMGWTFBBQ!! it still works lol!
Check out my old site with old pics at www.groep7.co.za/Stars/

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Re: NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Tue, 04 May 2004 11:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land
Not to worry. If it don't happen now, we will try to make it happen later when everyone has their games done and more time on their hands. Very Happy

Angel



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Re: NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Tue, 04 May 2004 21:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pacific NW

I'd play.
Sometimes I play at advanced level and sometimes I play at beginner level, depending on my mood, so I dunno where you'd place me.

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Re: NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Tue, 04 May 2004 23:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land
Coyote wrote on Tue, 04 May 2004 20:09

I'd play.
Sometimes I play at advanced level and sometimes I play at beginner level, depending on my mood, so I dunno where you'd place me.

At this very moment, I would place you opposite the only other person to reply in the affirmative on the poll. Arguing We would have to put it down as a duel.

We may have to revive this thread at a later date. I would be tempted to place you in the intermediate level as an initial rating simply due to the length of time I've seen you bouncing around here on AH and back on the NG. You might be more comfortable setting your own initial rank, however, like I did.

Razz

How's that for a "cop out"?

The Crusader Angel



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Re: NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Thu, 06 May 2004 08:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land
We have made it up to 3 saying "yes" with all the rest saying "no", except for the 1 who claims to be "clueless". Laughing

Tomorrow is the cut-off on the post, IIRC, so everyone needs to cast their votes today. Well, if you want a game you need to cast today. If you really ain't got time, then I suppose I will not get any more no votes.

I'm not going to call this game "due to lack of interest", but "due to lack of time". This game idea will be revived at a later date.

Perhaps as all the "young dudes" become available, they will remind me of their interest in the game. Perhaps someone not particularly interested in actually playing this game would not mind acting as a "third-party" who would check race files for compliance and allow me to be a playing host. This third-party person would also have to act as the "ranker" at game's end. Very Happy

Sure would be nice of someone. I would be sorely tempted to laud your praises through out the forum. Not Worthy

Well, we will see what tomorrow brings.

The Crusader Angel



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Re: NG Idea - "All Things Being Equal" Thu, 06 May 2004 09:59 Go to previous message
joseph is currently offline joseph

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 440
Registered: May 2003
Location: Bristol
Crusader
If no one else volunteers, I am on Hols till tuesday but would be happy to check races for complience then.
Will check this thread when I return and drop you my email if required
Yours
Infidel Laughing



Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"

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