Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » LRTs
| Re: LRTs |
Fri, 24 October 2008 21:38   |
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 Combat |
 | Warrant Officer |
Messages: 118
Registered: May 2008 | |
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UR I feel is a bit unsung , While most uses of this LRT have been stated. Greater flexability in early ship building which works out well for me personally because Im of the habit that once I start building warships I dont stop even if there is no immediate need, even in peace time Ill dedicate 1-10% of my production to warships depending on the situation. This may seem wasteful but many times in a pinch a stack of outdated crusiers could be a big help. For example suppose you suddenly see 30 Battleships bearing down on one of your planets while you can only field 17 of your top of the line Battleships in time + your space station. Not a good thing but suddenly you remember the stack of 30 outdated crusiers thats been just sitting around for the last few years. Just enough to tip the balance in your favor.
Also stated is the use of UR for providing a early if inefficient boost to new colonies.
But the idea I want to focus on is somthing started in another thread is the use of UR as a early boost to econ. The value of this idea is dependent upon race design. For example a JOAT with a 1/2500 pop econ depends heavily on getting factories up and going ASAP, the extra resources to put into factories from scrapping those starting ships really helps get your econ going alot sooner, especially the mini-miner if timed right can dump over 100 resources into your early econ. Not to mention that little bit of extra ger for those last 5 factories before the ger crunch.
A 1/1000 pop econ while still benefiting from this, the payoff overall in my opinion is not worth the RW points since you are already pretty quick out of the gate.
Finally the 90% mineral return in my mind indirectly improves your your mine efficiency since you are getting more milage per kt of minerals + more milage out of those minerals you grab from salvage.
Also the obvoius benefit of resource return for any ship scrapped that could be put in to new ships or tech.
Another thought is UR with NRSE those expensive engines dont seem so bad since you will get a good % back not to mention that you could be partly funding those new ships with older generation ships thus sucking up some of the extra cost of building with NRSE.
I think this LRT is great while it has no huge benefit to any one facet of a race it feeds a little bit into several economic and strategic areas.
[Updated on: Sat, 25 October 2008 17:03]
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: LRTs |
Sat, 25 October 2008 02:55 |
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| zoid wrote on Fri, 13 December 2002 22:11 |
My own humble thoughts;
GENERALIZED RESEARCH:
Seems to me lots of people like TT, and not many like GR. Huh? 
The advantages of GR, obvious. Get a few extra race points, and more importantly, get a 125% return on research allocations. The obvious disadvantage is that you can't accelerate towards any one certain tech as fast, but more troubling to me personally is that around BIO tech 12, research in Bio becomes pointless. Now 15% of that 125% return is being wasted in biotech. WASTED IN BIOTECH - unless you also have the TT LRT.
Seems to me the selection of GR along with TT not only mitigates the cost of TT (very slightly, granted) but more importantly, you can keep improving your BIO tech without actually putting anything into it, thus the extra research points are still serving a purpose. You're still getting use out of ALL the extra 25% gained thru this LRT, and it's helping something you don't really WANT to dedicate research to anyway. FIVE somethings you don't want to dedicate research to at any given moment, in fact. That offsets the "not researching something you want really fast" fast enough angle, because no matter how badly you want nubians, omegas, warp 10 capability, etc, you CAN'T ignore the other things long anyways. While you're doing your reluctant research in propulsion to get warp 10 for the new BB hull you're designing, you're still getting a free 15% into both construction and weapons for those omega nubes you want so badly. The other guy without GR, well, he doesn't get anything extra, and when he stops researching one thing, it's a REAL halt.
I don't always take GR, but I think it's a good LRT, and a natural partner for Total Terraforming. It's a tossup as to whether it's an advantage or a disadvantage, and the few extra points you get for taking it doesn't hurt.
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Agreed.  One thing to note is while it may slow down your research in a single field by half, it's not a good idea to spend more than half your research all in one field anyway. Unless you really like fielding jugg destroyers, that is.
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REGENERATING SHIELDS:
I like the sound of regenerating 140% shields, but the 50% armor efficiency scares me away. I took it once and found I NEVER wanted to pay the full cost and movement penalty for armor to gain half the benefit, so my ships went armorless. Not good. After that I never tried it again. Last, all too soon shield sappers mitigate or eliminate the limited advantage, leaving me with shieldless and armorless or poorly armored ships at best. But then, I only play IS as a diversion.
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Funny thing - I like unarmored RS battleships. The way I see it, each shield point is worth 4 points of armor against capital missiles, since they do double damage when the shields are down. Intelligent opponents will exploit this with sapper-heavy beamers to rush in and rip away your shields ASAP - leaving your BBs more attractive than whatever chaff survived the beams- and then blast you apart with missile barrages. With those kind of odds, armor hurts more than it helps - not only is it not cost-effective at this point, but making your ships slower and less agile can cost you a lot of advantage as well. Better to spend the resources on a few more ships than on armor. RS makes you significantly more resistant to sappers - and also if your shields to get burned off, they might regenerate in time to save a few ships from a missile salvo.
[Updated on: Sat, 25 October 2008 02:57] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: LRTs |
Sat, 25 October 2008 03:47 |
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| freakyboy wrote on Thu, 05 December 2002 10:59 |
LSP - killer. It's slows your start tragically. Good race point return, but not worth it.
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It is worth considering if you're AR or HE - and most HP races should do well to take LSP and 18% growth where they could have taken 17% growth.
[Updated on: Sat, 25 October 2008 03:48] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: LRTs |
Sun, 26 October 2008 04:59 |
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| magic9mushroom |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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IFE: Fuel Miser wins until midgame, and Galaxy Scoop is the best engine in the entire game, full stop. Increased efficiency's good too. Essential for non-IT, non-HE races.
TT: Extremely good for CAs because it's cheaper than widening your hab by 15. Good for ARs as well because terraforming is their factories. Also a possibility on SD because of decent Bio requirements for minefields.
ARM: Good for AR, sucks for everyone else. Why? The main advantage is gateability. You can't have a gate on a world that you're remote mining, unless you're AR. But wins for them.
ISB: Must-have for HE, good for most fast-expansion races. Not as useful for IT due to Orbital Forts' capacity for a gate, which negates the need for refueling. Utterly required for AR due to capacity scaling.
GR: Useful for some, especially SD and TT races. Utterly crap for AR.
UR: One of the most obvious traits for late-gamers, but the most often worked around due to fussiness of using it.
MA: AR would be the best race for this, except for the fact that they have the fountain. So crap, iow.
NRSE: An annoying LRT due to the loss of the best engines in the game, the TGFS, TGMS and GS. Used as a point mine for economy though, due to the relative uselessness of prop tech.
CE: Sucks because it's random, and therefore isn't good for planning, which is essential to Stars!. If it was simply less speed, it'd be OK, especially for IT and AR, the two races that rely on gates the most.
OBRM: Due to the fussiness of remote mining, it's free points for most races, and obviously for tri-immunes or TT CAs.
NAS: Doesn't hurt often, but when it does, you're screwed. There's a reason it gives you 100 points...
LSP: If you can get another point of growth, go for it, you'll be in front after 30 years.
BET: You lose nubs. .'. You lose late game. WM can possibly make decent use of this though.
RS: AR's "awesome" trait, hurts midgame but excels in late game. Especially good for a Mao strategy.
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| Re: LRTs |
Wed, 29 October 2008 03:50 |
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| iztok |
| Commander |
Messages: 1206
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
| magic9mushroom wrote on Tue, 28 October 2008 07:56 |
(MA)
But the players that didn't take it killed them off decades before.
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Yeah, that's IMO the main problem. Games where MA could decide the outcome are usually resolved significantly earlier, so the MA simply doesn't come into play, besides taking a lot of RW points from a race that has it. 
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Wed, 29 October 2008 03:50] Report message to a moderator
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