Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Minesweeping by chaff
| Re: Minesweeping by chaff - QUESTION |
Sat, 24 May 2003 19:23   |
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| BlueTurbit |
 | Lt. Commander
RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 |
Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas | |
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| Micha wrote on Sat, 24 May 2003 16:56 |
Crash sweeping is not the same as the normal sweeping that beams do, the crash and decrease of the minefield happens before the beam sweeping, but mabye still after detonation ...
Anyone testing that right now? 
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That seems to be the key: crash vs normal sweeping.
Fleets move and hit (crash) minefields before SD fields detonate. SD fields detonate after movement but before minesweeping. In the problem stated by Robert he wondered why his SD fields still exploded after he swept them with 300 chaff.
In order for the field to explode and cause damage it had to still exist, so it wasn't completely swept (crashed) during the movement phase. Even though later in review it was all gone and caused the question "How did it explode then?".
If he did move only 40 ly, in test, he would not have hit all the mines with collision method of chaff. And as you was said the beam sweeping occurs after the SD detonation. Therefore he was still able to explode the field and cause damage to all ships within the field.
In a test, if he would move at high warp 10, and instead of to the planet, go the extra distance past the planet with split chaff for a total of 64 ly rather than 40 ly, the field would be gone by collision method and it could not be detonated afterward.
This might be the case that happened, as in a test moving 40 ly with 300 chaff at warp 10 to the planet still allows exploding minefield afterward. So the chaff did not explode enough mines to kill the entire field. But moving at warp 10 for a total of 64 ly destroys all of the mines and no explosion is available with no field left. About 200 or so chaff will be left unharmed in this case where 300 were used. And all of the ships at the planet are undamaged by mine explosion that did not occur, including any extra chaff merged with the main fleet.
BlueTurbit Country/RockReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Minesweeping by chaff |
Mon, 26 May 2003 07:40 |
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Question:
Crash minesweeping... Has anyone thought of using nubians that are 98% cloaked laden with super latanium?
They'd be able to take MASSIVE beatings from minefields and with the cloaking they'd be able to pick and choose what to hit and when.
Could even chuck on a big mutha or 3?
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| Re: Minesweeping by chaff |
Mon, 26 May 2003 13:03 |
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 zoid |
 | Ensign |
Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA | |
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| Micha wrote on Mon, 26 May 2003 08:09 |
| freakyboy wrote on Mon, 26 May 2003 13:40 |
Question:
Crash minesweeping... Has anyone thought of using nubians that are 98% cloaked laden with super latanium?
They'd be able to take MASSIVE beatings from minefields and with the cloaking they'd be able to pick and choose what to hit and when.
Could even chuck on a big mutha or 3?
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Way to expensive, there are better and cheaper ship designs to send into minefields at full speed to try to reduce it by sweeping (not the crashing itself).
Regards,
mch
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Yeah, those Superlataniums are hideously expensive, as are the all the cloaks. Still, it might be a workable idea since you might never lose the thing. It's not like an expensive throwaway, seeing it's 98% cloaked - Unless there's an IS in the game.
I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math?  Ummm, sure!  I do FREESTYLE math.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Minesweeping by chaff |
Mon, 26 May 2003 14:29 |
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| yucaf |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 100
Registered: December 2002
Location: India | |
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If you can afford an extra turn or two, you don't have to crash-sweep by sending all your chaff to the planet you plan to attack. You can sent it to a point 1 l.y. apart. That way, if you can sweep (not set to friend), you will. If not, your chaff will end up really close to the field center and will sweep with their tiny laser but huge numbers. Then you can set your army to get to the place really fast since there is virtually no field (I think if you are sweeping at 1 l.y. from the center, the entire field is destroyed, even the central point).
Your lasers will sweep if your enemy is set to neutral or enemy, whatever he sets you (even Friend). If he sets you to friend, you'll go through the field whatever you set him.
Of course this won't work with SD detonating minefield.
With SD, I would recommend to send the chaff all the way through the minefield so that if it does not crash its exit point is OUT of the field, on the other side. If set to friend, they will all survive and won't be destroyed by the detonating field. All defender ships will take a hit... At this little game, the SD can't afford to take too many of his own hits... It's all tactics and trying to anticipate what your enemy will try.
My 
YucaF
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| Re: Minesweeping by chaff |
Fri, 30 May 2003 07:44 |
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| Hatterson |
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Messages: 121
Registered: May 2003
Location: NY, USA | 
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| Micha wrote on Fri, 30 May 2003 03:16 |
Chaff sweep does not depend on battle orders, I was referring to normal sweeping,
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I was referring to the combined tactic that was discussed earlier.
| yucaf wrote on Mon, 26 May 2003 14:29 |
If you can afford an extra turn or two, you don't have to crash-sweep by sending all your chaff to the planet you plan to attack. You can sent it to a point 1 l.y. apart. That way, if you can sweep (not set to friend), you will. If not, your chaff will end up really close to the field center and will sweep with their tiny laser but huge numbers. Then you can set your army to get to the place really fast since there is virtually no field (I think if you are sweeping at 1 l.y. from the center, the entire field is destroyed, even the central point).
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"Don't be so humble - you are not that great. " - Golda Meir (1898-1978) to a visiting diplomatReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Minesweeping by chaff |
Fri, 30 May 2003 20:28 |
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| Micha wrote on Tue, 27 May 2003 02:15 |
| yucaf wrote on Mon, 26 May 2003 20:29 |
(I think if you are sweeping at 1 l.y. from the center, the entire field is destroyed, even the central point).
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You are right, when you sweep to 1ly from the centre of a minefield the field is gone.
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Actually this is provably false. Right now in Zared 2 a certain race has a MML 1ly from a planet (to be precise, 1.41ly), and I've built an orbital fort with some sweeping.
The funny thing is, the minefield is still there - with 1ly of radius and 1 mine! I think what usually happens is that when you sweep to within 1ly, the decay gets rid of the last few. Of the aforementioned field, the decay is 10.
Here's a picture I took:
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/djhakase/1ly-minefield.gif
Alex.
(addendum: just wanted to point out, the game is ongoing so that's why all the identifiable info is blacked out)
[Updated on: Fri, 30 May 2003 20:30]
they made me do itReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Minesweeping by chaff |
Tue, 04 December 2007 22:27 |
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You send them in individual fleets.
The further they go through the minefield, the more likely they are to actually hit it, not just fly through it.
The speed for the test to hit the minefield is based on the distance you try to travel - i.e. if you set warp 9, but set a waypoint that is only 15ly away, the test will be done as if you were travelling warp 4.
So, to use the least chaff possible, you want to send your chaff to a point that is at least 65 (to ensure warp 9) or 82 (to ensure warp 10) away from where the chaff is now. You should go directly towards, and *past*, the centre of the minefield, so that even when the minefield shrinks, you get the best chance you can to strike it.
Example: minefield of 16ly radius. Lets assume we are going to travel at least 65lt, so the calculations will be at warp 9. So the chance of hitting a mine is 1.5% per ly travelled. So going to the centre has a chance of ~21.5% of hitting the field. If we tried to go to the far side of the minefield, we'd go through 16ly on the way in, and 16ly more on the way out... Chance of hitting the field now is now ~38.3%.
I don't have the formula handy for calculating the amount of damage done to a field each time it gets hit.
Don't forget that after a field is hit, it shrinks, so the next chaff is going to have a smaller chance of hitting it 
Also don't forget ships move in fleet number order, so make sure your attack fleet has a higher fleet number than all the chaff that are clearing the way.
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| Re: Minesweeping by chaff |
Wed, 05 December 2007 04:10 |
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You can calculate roughly how many chaff you'll need. I don't have a formula / algorithmn for this, but no doubt someone does
Split off the number off chaff you want to use. Now split all on that fleet. Now go to the attack fleet, split it all into a new fleet. The fleet will have a higher number than all the chaff, as the lowest available fleet number is always chosen - and the chaff just filled all the lower ones.
Cruisers are not always better, but they often are. It depends what you are facing. For example, if your opponent is using only beams, then frigates are usually best (if you have RS). Cruisers are very nice in the jihad era, because stacks of cruisers can survive salvos of jihads from orbitals without taking casualties, unlike DDs or FFs.
Cruisers are generally better than rogues, but in some situations rogues can be better.... You should read and post in the SS subforum if you want more info on that.
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