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| Guts of Generalized Research |
Sun, 11 May 2003 21:16  |
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I know that everyone says don't take Generalized Research, but I was testing a race vs some AIs and I was wondering just how GR works. Does anyone know what the order of allotting the resources is? Does the 15% come 1st, last, or is it at the same time? What happens if you get a tech and your primary research switches to another tech? Or has this already been written about and I'm just not looking in the right place?
Because OOMATTERReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Guts of Generalized Research |
Mon, 12 May 2003 09:10  |
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The real problem with GR is that the bonus is wasted because you end up researching stuff you don't need.
Usually with normal research, the bulk of your research will go into weapons, construction. These two need to get to level 26. Energy either 14 or 18 (eventually 22 if the game lasts that long). Prop will stay at 12 and electronics 11 for a very long time while you pour research into const and weapons. With Bio research, most people stop at 4 or 7. With GR, you must continue to put some of your research into the less important areas long after you reached needed levels.
Paladin
"There is no substitute for Integrity"Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Guts of Generalized Research |
Mon, 12 May 2003 13:39 |
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Yes, I'm aware that GR is a horrible choice for most races, wasn't planning on using it in a game anytime soon, I'm still just learning how to survive in pbem games. However, I have been reading a lot of the articles that are around and I haven't seen any details on GR, so I was curious about the details because it always seemed like a good deal when I was only playing AIs.
It seems to me that the 15% comes 1st, so if you are very close to gaining a level (less then %15 of your total research) on one tech, (energy for example) you can actually research more then the 50% of your total on a different tech (ex. weapons) by selecting energy and having your next research be on weapons. So then Weapons gets the 15% from not being your primary research focus and it gets the remainder of the 50% after energy levels up. Since energy was under 15% to begin with you would be getting the tech for that anyway, so you might as well use it to boost the weapons tech.
I'm not 100% sure of this since I was testing very quickly over the weekend (and a bit drunkly I might add). I also noticed that the techs at the top of the list seemed to get slightly more research points then the ones at the bottom. Has anyone else had a chance to check this out?
Because OOMATTERReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Guts of Generalized Research |
Mon, 12 May 2003 17:23 |
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Total % of research points using GR = 125%
15% is "wasted" on biotech.
110% in useful fields. tada!!! bonus.
I like GR if I'm SD or CA... sometimes if I'm JOAT too
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| Re: Guts of Generalized Research |
Mon, 12 May 2003 19:15 |
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 zoid |
 | Ensign |
Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA | |
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| OOMatter wrote on Sun, 11 May 2003 18:16 |
....and I was wondering just how GR works. Does anyone know what the order of allotting the resources is? Does the 15% come 1st, last, or is it at the same time? What happens if you get a tech and your primary research switches to another tech? Or has this already been written about and I'm just not looking in the right place?
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I can't authoritively answer your question, sorry. Everyone knows I don't know diddly. Still, I like to weigh in on things I don't know anything about and see what happens. 
But I'd like to know, why would the order matter?
I'd guess that the game puts 15% to all fields but the primary (in which it puts the 50%), and if the 50% allocated to the primary field was more than enough to level that field of research, then it would place the remaining research into the new field it was instructed to switch to (on top of the 15%). But whether it allocates the 15% fields first or the 50% field first, I don't see how it would matter. I do believe that when you switch research fields it IS possible to net more than 50% in one certain field in the right situation. If you want to micromanage your research by switching and adjusting total point allocations, I'd guess you MIGHT be able to mitigate the affect of halving your primary research field, occasionally. Even if this is true, it doesn't seem like a significant difference to me. The best you could do in a field of research would be <65%. But as I said, I'm just guessing, rationalizing.
As for whether GR is a good idea or not...
I generally dislike Total Terraforming (too expensive), but any time I try it I can't resist also taking Generalized Research, because now ALL the fields of research are important and you have an additional field to research that everyone else is content to ignore - you really need that research bonus. I know some take TT just for the 30% less terraforming cost and still ignore biotech, but that devalues the most expensive LRT even further. (Might get better results just spending those RW points on economy, but I don't really know that.)
On the other hand, as your fields of research max out that's 15% less per field that you're getting to use, and eventually you wind up with less than 100% of your research points doing anything. The one way to avoid that is to carefully manage your research so they all remain equal to the finish - but who wants to delay weapons, construction, and energy while waiting for the biotech, electronics and propulsion? I tend to put more emphasis on electronics and propulsion than most players, but even I don't want that.
So I tend to avoid both TT AND GR. I think they go hand in hand as natural partner LRT's (like IFE and NRSE), and I don't like either.
I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math?  Ummm, sure!  I do FREESTYLE math.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Guts of Generalized Research |
Fri, 16 May 2003 05:24 |
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| iztok |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1206
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
| OOMatter wrote on Sun, 11 May 2003 21:16 |
I know that everyone says don't take Generalized Research, ...
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There's one situation where you can not survive without GR: games with forced generation of several years. In a game where I was once (tiny sparse, 16 players) there was a 100 years of forced gen. Races that didn't take GR ended with tech 12-13 in all fields (lowest field next). Those who took it and researched just weapons ended with cheap weapons tech 21-23, other cheap fields 15-16, normal fields 14 and expensive fields 11-12. BBs with Dooms and Gorilla shields against BBs with Jihads/Bears. Guess who has lost BTW my race (a tech thief SS) ended in every testbed with Armageddons  , but not in actual game because too many players have not taken GR.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Fri, 16 May 2003 05:26] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Guts of Generalized Research |
Thu, 02 May 2013 22:07 |
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| skoormit |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama | |
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OOMatter wrote on Sun, 11 May 2003 20:16I know that everyone says don't take Generalized Research, but I was testing a race vs some AIs and I was wondering just how GR works. Does anyone know what the order of allotting the resources is? Does the 15% come 1st, last, or is it at the same time? What happens if you get a tech and your primary research switches to another tech? Or has this already been written about and I'm just not looking in the right place?
Zombie thread awake!
Since I did not see the answer posted, and since I believe I know the answer:
Research is allotted from top to bottom. That is, Energy, then Weapons, then Propulsion, and so on.
For each category:
1) if it is your primary research field this year, 50% of your total research resources are added to this field. If it is not your primary field this year, you get 15%.
2) If the resources allotted to this field increase your level in this field
2a: the cost of the next level in all fields increases by 5, 10, or 17.5 resources (depending on racial cost of that field) immediately, as usual.
2b: if this field was your primary field for the year, resources allotted for this field in excess of what was needed to complete the level are immediately added to the field you have indicated as the "next field to research"
One trick that can come in handy is picking a level that you have almost completed in order to get more than 50% devoted to a single field. Example:
You have 1000 resources for research this year.
You are 50 resources away from the next Energy level.
You are 550 resources away from the next Propulsion level.
You select Energy as your primary field.
You select Propulsion as the next field to research.
Result:
Energy, since it is listed first, is figured first. Since it is your primary field, you will get 500 resources of primary research.
The first 50 will go to Energy, which finishes that level. The cost of all other fields increases by 5/10/17.5.
The remaining 450 primary research resources will go to Propulsion, which does not finish the level.
Weapons is next. 150 will go to Weapons, as a secondary field.
Propulsion is next. 150 MORE resources will go to Propulsion, as a secondary field. This finishes the level, since you have spent 600 on Propulsion this turn, and the next level only cost 550 + 5/10/17.5.
The excess resources (600 - 555/560/567.5) goes to the next level of Propulsion.
150 to Construction
150 to Electronics
150 to Biotech
With GR, you should check your tech costs for each field each year. If you are less than 15% of your research budget away from a field that you don't really want to pour resources into, pick that field as your primary and another field that you do want as the next field to research. Most of the time it won't make a big difference, but those little nips and tucks can eventually add up to getting a key level a year earlier than otherwise. Every little bit helps with GR.
[Updated on: Thu, 02 May 2013 22:13]
What we need's a few good taters.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Guts of Generalized Research |
Wed, 12 June 2013 15:15 |
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| skoormit |
| Lieutenant |
Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama | |
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scottsch wrote on Tue, 11 June 2013 11:17...do you happen to know how rounding works?
I do not, sorry. To be compelled to test it, I would have to be either very bored or very, very desperate for an exact answer for a particular game.
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