| Running out of fuel while hitting a minefield |
Tue, 14 January 2014 12:25  |
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 skoormit |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama | |
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Scenario:
I have a lone ff carrying 118mg of fuel.
The ship is in an enemy minefield.
I give that ship a destination about 89 ly away and set the speed to w10. The Est Fuel Usage shows 158mg. (I will run out of fuel before making it to my destination.)
The minefield extends over about the first 20ly of the ship's path.
Result:
The following year, I receive two messages.
First: Fleet #x has run out of fuel. The fleet's speed has been decreased to warp 1.
Second: [Design Name] #x has been annihilated in a [Enemy Name] Standard mine field at Space ([coordinates]).
The salvage from the ship appears in the minefield approx 11ly from the ship's prior position.
My observation:
Prorating the Est Fuel Usage for the full trip over the distance actually traveled implies that the ship would have used about 11/89 * 158 = app 19.5 mg before blowing up in the minefield. My ship had nearly 100mg more than that, and really would not have run out of fuel before blowing up.
Therefore fuel usage is calculated before checking for minefield hits.
My questions:
Has anyone observed this before?
If so, does anyone know if my ship would have still had ~100mg of fuel left if it had lived through the minefield hit?
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| Re: Running out of fuel while hitting a minefield |
Wed, 15 January 2014 06:47  |
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| magic9mushroom |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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I'd imagine what goes on here is something like this.
1) Figure out how much fuel will be used. If(Fuel Used > Current Fuel) then display Out Of Fuel message, edit speed so that all travel after running out of fuel is at lowest ramscoop speed in fleet.
2) Move ship 1 ly at a time through space, checking for minefield hits. If hit by mine, display Mine Hit message, end movement.
3) Calculate fuel use of movement.
1) has to be done before 2) because the reduced speed after it runs out of fuel affects the chance of a mine hit. (Note also that it's possible to legitimately run out of fuel AND hit a mine, if you're using high-end ramscoops; this means a blanket "if mine hit then remove Out Of Fuel message" wouldn't work).
[Updated on: Wed, 15 January 2014 06:52] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Running out of fuel while hitting a minefield |
Wed, 15 January 2014 09:58 |
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| skoormit |
| Lieutenant |
Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama | |
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magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 15 January 2014 05:47I'd imagine what goes on here is something like this.
1) Figure out how much fuel will be used. If(Fuel Used > Current Fuel) then display Out Of Fuel message, edit speed so that all travel after running out of fuel is at lowest ramscoop speed in fleet.
2) Move ship 1 ly at a time through space, checking for minefield hits. If hit by mine, display Mine Hit message, end movement.
3) Calculate fuel use of movement.
1) has to be done before 2) because the reduced speed after it runs out of fuel affects the chance of a mine hit. (Note also that it's possible to legitimately run out of fuel AND hit a mine, if you're using high-end ramscoops; this means a blanket "if mine hit then remove Out Of Fuel message" wouldn't work).
That makes sense. The question that remains for me is whether step #3 exists. In other words, do you use the fuel for the entire movement regardless of the mine hit? I see a valid theoretical argument either way. As XAPBob said, it's easy enough to test. If nobody already knows for sure, I'll probably get around to testing it myself at some point. Testing Stars! hypotheses cuts into my Dwarf Fortress time, though. 
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| Re: Running out of fuel while hitting a minefield |
Wed, 15 January 2014 20:09 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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skoormit wrote on Tue, 14 January 2014 18:25Has anyone observed this before?
Can't remember, but looks like yet another flavor of the old "drag pursuer deeper into minefield than yourself when hitting" bug (a.k.a "pursuer overshoot: minehit mix" bug). Stars! apparently calculates the whole trip 1st, even to the point of giving the destination coords to pursuers, before checking for mine hits. IIRC, not even lack of fuel prevents that, provided you actually hit a mine. 
Quote:does anyone know if my ship would have still had ~100mg of fuel left if it had lived through the minefield hit?
Fuel isn't affected by minehits that don't kill the ship, so yes. Things get messy if it was a fleet and part of it died while the rest survived, but yeah. 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
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| Re: Running out of fuel while hitting a minefield |
Fri, 17 January 2014 21:32 |
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| LittleEddie |
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Messages: 517
Registered: February 2011
Location: Delaware | |
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If you think about it, before you can figure out if you hit a mine you have to figure out how fast you are traveling during each piece of the movement.
So it first figures how far you can travel with the fuel you have and give a message if you run out and stops the ship where you ran out.
Say you traveled 20ly in a minefield before running out of fuel (The engine uses the total distance you wanted to travel for your *best speed, not the distance you did traveled) But say you wanted to travel 64ly, the engine will use Warp 8 to figure mine damage, not 5 for 20ly, but it will only check 20 times(the distance you did travel), not 64.
Next it checks if you hit a mine 20 times using your *best speed vs the type of minefield. If you did hit a mine it does it's thing and moves you back to the impact location and you get a message about it.
*Best Speed: the probability of hitting a minefield is not based on the speed set in the interface, but on the minimum warp speed needed to travel the desired distance moved. eg if you send a ship 60ly at W9 your chances of hitting are the same as travelling at W8.
[Updated on: Fri, 17 January 2014 21:41] Report message to a moderator
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