Shouldn't that be called a "quickstarter" (QS) or perhaps an "hypergrower" (HG)? These are quite dangerous beasts, but not what I usually call "monster". UFO abduction

I've certainly learnt alot in my first game...

XAPBob wrote on Fri, 25 October 2013 03:32

I've certainly learnt alot in my first game...

Though apparently not how to spell "a lot".

...I didn't bother profing.

I agree with everyone participating on this thread in that AR has to handicapped very carefully.

But I disagree with a 1-click or perhaps even a 2-click method.

Non-AR races start out in the race wizard with poor settings for factories and mines.
They fall in the nether world between -f, and HG/HP, having no strengths to exploit.
So limiting them to 2 clicks either way is a strong handicap.

But many people consider the AR's default resource factor setting of 10 as ideal. Another good setting is 25. Less resources, but has the extra race points to widen habs and live in more places like a -f.

I have seen people post good results from setting of 8 to 12 and roughly 20 to 25.

However AR is handicapped, a player can adjust their playing style. So there may be no perfect solution.

Resource factor vs. Race wizard point cost
7 800
8 420
9 200
10 0
11 and up -40 for each

Forcing an AR player to a resource factor of 7, would be interesting!

AR is for large games. If it plays small/medium universe sizes, AR is already handicapped a lot. So I do not think AR needs any additional handicap.

AR is for large games. If it plays small/medium universe sizes, AR is already handicapped a lot. So I do not think AR needs any additional handicap.

(...a lot of really good thoughts about JOATs and luck...)

• The non-JOAT has to build a few more colonizers and freighters, since he has to take over a few more planets than the JOAT does. But that's a pretty small cost in the overall picture.
  
• The non-JOAT has to spend a few more years bombing out abandoned planets. Okay, yes, that's a pretty good point. Moving the bombing fleet around takes the non-JOAT a few more years, so the JOAT benefits from his gains more quickly than the non-JOAT.
  

• I agree, but I don't think this advantage is restricted to border planets. If we accept premise #1, that the JOAT has tighter habs, then finding a good breeder is already more beneficial than for the non-JOAT, even though it is just as likely to occur.
• If the JOAT is 45 wide in all 3 habs, and the non-JOAT is 50 wide in all 3 habs, and both are centered the same, a great planet (+-5 clicks from center in all 3 habs) for one race is also a great planet for the other.
  

• 1 in 93 planets will be habitable according to the RW.
  
• If you find a great planet (+-5 clicks from center) close to your HW, you have exceeded your average expectation by an enormous amount. You weren't even expecting to find one habitable planet within 3 hops, and here you have a great one. Extraordinary luck!
  
• Now you can export pop when you hit 25% on your HW, and pretty soon you'll have twice the pop growth and twice the resources and minerals than you were expecting to have with average luck.
  

(...a lot of really good thoughts about this ruleset and luck...)

--- Luck #1 - proper successful guessing about your neighbors
So, with restricted game starting, the balance of game tend to be equal. In restricted game we have much less chances of players dropping - economy is almost equal, so standing is too.
In normal game usually you get few players that are quite behind because relied on good planets draw and failed, or for other race design reasons.
So game is unbalanced early and everybody knows that, and so you can __predict__ who will be the first target etc. In all equal game you need _luck_ for that all - who will be the first target, who will be gunk up (can it be you?) etc. - you just do not know, so you do not know what to prepare for, where to relocate forces, whether to build lots of forces or not and when etc. You need _luck_ to catch up and guess it all well, have luck to guess it properly. In normal game you usually need much less guessing, you just see what player will be attacked first and help the opposite side race to kill it quickly to do not miss your own piece of pie.
So, Luck in guessing to get proper border setup, proper fleet allocations, proper planets strengthening, choose proper targets and planets for attacking etc. is very significant for restricted game. Even experience here may have lower effect, just luck.

---- Luck #2

When you normally design the race, you usually design it with some idea, and choose settings to satisfy that idea and requirements related to game settings. In restricted game, you have most races more or less "equalized" in this sense.

In a normal game (and without JoAT ), as game progresses, players usually stick with the race design idea and proceed to achieve race design goals. If get some luck in that in sense of planets or neighbors, nice. If have bad luck, it does not affects much the overall game result and standing, just slightly. Race design, its idea, affects the game much more than additional factors like good planets draw or weak neighbor. (If you designed your race to depend on luck of good planets draw... You already built this into the race design idea, so luck here plays completely different role, and we do not account this case here).

In a restricted game like yours, economy is equalized. To break the balance, become #1-2, dominate few turns ahead with economy, you need to be really lucky (assuming equal players experience) in many things all together. And that is _overall_ luck, gathered from all the small various and different "lucks". To have them more than others - that is where you need to be really "lucky". Without that, all will remain equal and the game will last for really-really long ). So, game is driven by "general" luck for each player and less by race design - player standing depends more on how many "small lucky things" that player catches up and manage to use, and, more importantly, depends on having them. 2 good initial planets 82 l.y. away from HW and you think you already not #1? Not likely, you may get lu

Tomasoid wrote on Sun, 20 October 2013 08:54

(...a lot of really good thoughts about JOATs and luck...)

Tomasoid, that was a lot of meaty stuff and I've been letting my brain chew on it for a while.

I think your JOAT argument is based on these two premises:

1) JOAT is usually handicapped by the game rules; let's assume JOAT sacrifices a bit of hab to meet the handicap.
2) JOAT, with his higher pop cap, therefore acheives the same economy with slightly fewer planets than non-JOAT race with similar econ settings.

We must recognize that #1 is not a guarantee. Maybe I would rather sacrifice PGR, take more expensive tech, and/or uncheck the g box. But for comparison purposes, I'm fine with a discussion based on premise #1.

I can agree with #2, given #1. A JOAT with somewhat tighter habs gets same economy as non-JOAT with somewhat wider habs.
...

...
Once more, I agree with your premise but disagree with your conclusion. If races are very similar, then the total of skill AND luck matters more.