Home » General Chat » Forum News & Announcements » Another user chased away
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| Another user quit |
Fri, 21 June 2013 21:48   |
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There's a difference between quitting and being chased away.
Not going to get into the reasons behind it again, as they are all in the appropriate place.
Perhaps things could have played out another way, but then again, perhaps the end actions could have played out another way too.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Another user chased away |
Fri, 21 June 2013 23:49 |
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| neilhoward | 
 | Commander |
Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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Dave, I believe that is an artefact of the forum software. I have seen it on some older forums that allow but discouraged anonymous posting. HWF requires a login to post in all threads, so the only time we see it is when an account is deleted.
I will miss Lucjan in the games.
[Updated on: Fri, 21 June 2013 23:51] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Another user chased away |
Sun, 23 June 2013 01:04 |
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| neilhoward |
| Commander |
Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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Eagle of Fire wrote on Sat, 22 June 2013 09:29Both users mentioned left because of the same reason in the same game: they were sore losers who could not handle playing a multiplayer game.
That is not quite fair or accurate.
Lowtek was Crowe's first game on SAH, and imo it was not the best representation of what the game can be. It was constantly being put on hold or having the schedule changed. The host was not as responsive or proactive in communication as might reasonably be expected (in one case taking an entire month to to resolve a potentially critical issue). These things happen because we all have real life considerations that take priority over a video game, and there is no fault in that. Crowe proximally dropped because an expert level replacement player was chosen when the race in 1st place was abandoned, despite the fact that this was intended to be a game for beginners. Crowe was not losing when he quit the game. Crowe ultimately left because there was more out of game drama, arguments, name-calling, and conflicts than he felt tolerable.
I have seen Lucjan quit games due to IRL consideration while a member of the winning alliance, and I have seen him stick with games long after any hope of victory had vanished because he was still able to learn and have fun. Lucjan did not drop Lowtek because of what was going on in the game. He left because of what was going on outside of the game. The problem is toxic attitudes and comportment of some players (like myself) outside the game, and it leaves some folks wondering if it is worth putting up with for a video game.
[Qualify that I have behaved very poorly in past forum interactions, and been allowed multiple opportunities to reform.]
Lets try to keep the conflicts and drama in the games and off the forum. That way folks feel more comfortable playing, and that means more battleships that we can shoot at.
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| Re: Another user chased away |
Sun, 23 June 2013 12:46 |
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| neilhoward |
| Commander |
Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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Ron wrote on Fri, 21 June 2013 15:13
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This is the second user in 3 months that has requested this because they felt no longer welcome.
The Stars! Community is getting smaller. We should consider carefully how we interact with fellow members or one day there won't be enough of us to justify the existence of Stars! AutoHost.
Eagle of Fire wrote on Sat, 22 June 2013 09:29
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Good ridance and only show me how much of an ___hole they really were in the end.
Someone is missing the point entirely. That kind of screed is exactly the problem.
[Updated on: Sun, 23 June 2013 13:44] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Another user chased away |
Sun, 23 June 2013 15:56 |
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neilhoward wrote on Sun, 23 June 2013 22:16Ron wrote on Fri, 21 June 2013 15:13
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This is the second user in 3 months that has requested this because they felt no longer welcome.
The Stars! Community is getting smaller. We should consider carefully how we interact with fellow members or one day there won't be enough of us to justify the existence of Stars! AutoHost.
Eagle of Fire wrote on Sat, 22 June 2013 09:29
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Good ridance and only show me how much of an ___hole they really were in the end.
Someone is missing the point entirely. That kind of screed is exactly the problem.
Not that I agree with Eagle using that word, but it's strange that you say that scared them away, considering they used such words with equal ease..
I remember one classic in-game message telling me that my dead corpse would be buried in the ground along with pig manure, or something to that sort ..
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Another user chased away |
Mon, 24 June 2013 03:14 |
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LittleEddie wrote on Mon, 24 June 2013 06:11So many words wasted to say so little,
We should be trying to make our community larger and encouraging people to continue playing this game. I think these people left because they did not feel welcome here.
If your goal here is to win THIS game at any cost, without thinking about who will be around to play the next game, then your part of the problem.
Little Eddie.
Edit: My first line in this post is about the thread hijacking done here. This thread should be about.
Quote:The Stars! Community is getting smaller. We should consider carefully how we interact with fellow members or one day there won't be enough of us to justify the existence of Stars! AutoHost.
Yes, we should encourage bullies and complainers or (people who are just having a bad day and who misbehave) to stick around in amusement parks... make them feel comfortable and relaxed enough to cut lines and trash talk... heaven forbid that the park doesn't go out of business.
If this goes on, feel free to delete my account, without even telling me about it.
I'll take that as a signal to stop playing Stars! here on SAH.
Thanks,
Nmid.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Another user chased away |
Mon, 24 June 2013 03:23 |
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 XAPBob |
 | Lt. Commander |
Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012 | |
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nmid wrote on Mon, 24 June 2013 08:14LittleEddie wrote on Mon, 24 June 2013 06:11So many words wasted to say so little,
We should be trying to make our community larger and encouraging people to continue playing this game. I think these people left because they did not feel welcome here.
If your goal here is to win THIS game at any cost, without thinking about who will be around to play the next game, then your part of the problem.
Little Eddie.
Edit: My first line in this post is about the thread hijacking done here. This thread should be about.
Quote:The Stars! Community is getting smaller. We should consider carefully how we interact with fellow members or one day there won't be enough of us to justify the existence of Stars! AutoHost.
Yes, we should encourage bullies and complainers or (people who are just having a bad day and who misbehave) to stick around in amusement parks... make them feel comfortable and relaxed enough to cut lines and trash talk... heaven forbid that the park doesn't go out of business.
If this goes on, feel free to delete my account, without even telling me about it.
I'll take that as a signal to stop playing Stars! here on SAH.
Thanks,
Nmid.
Nmid - I get your point, although I think it's bee put in a fairly inflammatory fashion.
Players who quit a game and find a replacement, or even just hand files to the host, are not a problem. Players who delete all their game files are much less easy to tolerate - they make life hard for everyone at SAH (because you never know if/when a game might be destroyed by them leaving).
Yes we should be encouraging people to stay, but not at any cost - the community has to be healthy at least as much as it has to be large (I doubt it will ever regain that classification).
I'm new enough here to not know if the two players were old hands (in which case a serious loss) or as new as myself (in which case a much lesser loss).
XAPBob
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| Re: Another user chased away |
Mon, 24 June 2013 03:38 |
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| magic9mushroom |
| Commander |
Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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neilhoward wrote on Sun, 23 June 2013 15:04Crowe proximally dropped because an expert level replacement player was chosen when the race in 1st place was abandoned, despite the fact that this was intended to be a game for beginners.
Nmid isn't expert-level. I mean, he is better than me (I was the said #1 player that dropped) and it could certainly have been handled better, but it's not that extreme a skill gap.
Now, as regards Lowtek (which is the direct cause of both these account deletions), here's my assessment of blame:
Sprocket: A lot. He's been a notoriously unresponsive host, and both of these players were clearly aggravated (I've seen the emails) by his apparent lack of authority (allowing himself to be pushed around by some of the players).
Me: Some. I was an idiot to sign up for the game in the first place, and I should have raised a bigger red flag when Nmid was brought in to replace me given that Sprocket had specifically rejected him for the game in the first place. I also said some stuff to Eagle of Fire that was way out of line and borderline racist, so I apologise for that.
Nmid: Some. Not to yell at you, dude, but you really have been rather abrasive and vicious in your propaganda and I can understand why people wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of that vitriol. I know you don't intend it to sound like "real" insults, but it can come across that way.
Asmodai/Loucipher: Some. Part of the reason all of this got so heated and vicious was that undisclosed brothers playing as allies has the stink of a pre-game and leaves an extremely bad taste in everyone's mouth. Not saying that you actually were pre-game partners, but it still was a pretty dumb idea and the vitriol you got thrown at you was almost an inevitable result.
EDIT: LittleEddie could have done without getting rampantly paranoid about anyone and everyone, too. I feel inclined to quote that old con-artist's chestnut - "You don't get people to trust you by asking them to trust you, but by first trusting them." Accusing people of cheating was way out of line, as was accusing me of account-hijacking.
[Updated on: Mon, 24 June 2013 04:11] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Another user chased away |
Mon, 24 June 2013 16:55 |
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| Eagle of Fire | 
| Lt. Commander |
Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5 | |
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Heh. Well, you see, I remember I got hammered a few times diplomatically in this game. But I never took it personally because it is a game. Propaganda is common place in such a game and you should never take personally something which is meant as in character. When you play STARS! you represent a race, not yourself. Just like when I log in to "Eagle of Fire" that's only my call sign and not who I really am. (Even though I do have this call sign since about 20 years now...)
This is the main problem I've seen with Loucifer. When I mentioned the fact that he and his brother were allied I didn't even pick on them for that. I simply used the fact to point out that it was normal that they were going to play together and work together and also to think alike and play alike. One of them crossed me twice in that game so I simply associated him by extension. And he didn't like it and took it personally while it was supposed to be addressed in a in character level.
This is why I said that if they leave after rage quitting then it's all the best for this community. It's like asking someone who never go out to make mountain hiking their one and only job for the rest of their life irreverently to the point of if they can do it or not. Some people are cut for a job, some others are not. And that's not a problem per se, unless you force someone to try to fit in. If I play Chess with someone and he turn the board upside down every single time he's cornered, you think I'll continue to play with the guy?
Quote:Edit: My first line in this post is about the thread hijacking done here. This thread should be about.
Quote:
The Stars! Community is getting smaller. We should consider carefully how we interact with fellow members or one day there won't be enough of us to justify the existence of Stars! AutoHost.
I completely disagree. I think the subject of this thread, as stated in the title, is: Quote:Another user chased away
And then Ron started his messages with this first line:Quote:'loucipher' has asked me to delete his HWF account. He is leaving Stars! and no longer feels welcome in the Stars! Community.
For me it is clear that it is not really the fact the community is getting smaller that pressed Ron to raise a red flag. That fact is rather the end result of his argument. I think what annoy Ron the most in all this is that he is the admin here and he is the receiving end of angry users who seem to be aggravated by their visit here to the point they do not wish to stay.
Taking aside that asking for an admin to delete one account is borderline idiotic since it achieve absolutely nothing to have one account deleted instead of leaving without coming back, if one here want to actually find solutions to this problem instead of instigate it then the discussion would be directed on how to prevent this from happening again. I already said that I think the reason who pressed both users to ask for their account deletion was on a personal level because they could not handle playing multiplayer games. That's my profound analysis and belief of the situation. So I'm rather at a loss as to what to say about recommendations.
Maybe someone else can find something a little more constructive.
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I am on a hot streak... Literally.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Another user chased away |
Wed, 16 October 2013 08:48 |
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Hi!
To tell the truth, the game is too old for newcomers, so we most likely will only lose more players than gain.
One of the ways to keep Stars! game active is renew the game completely.
That is what I started to work on (solo yet...)
And process of renewing it is slow... Way too slow unless make some decent project with a good budget that can give a profit in the future, like many other online game projects do.
I also realized that 80% of my free time goes... to Stars! playing )) instead of development.
That is another possible reason why most Stars! related projects are still not finished - related people are still playing real Stars! games and hosting them, spending a lot of time for that.
I started the ball rolling, but I'm still at square 1, and feel that I would be there for a long time if continue playing and if not getting any additional development help (or a budget to hire developers). I tried kickstarter web site to get some free budget, but Stars! online project does not fall into allowed (eligible) projects there.
So...
Either we keep slowly dying, or _organize_ something, finally.
P.S. I'll keep playing in my existing active games, but would not enter new games here any more. My new games soon will be all testing games for new Stars! web site and engine...
P.P.S. Approximate estimated date for first testing games available - Feb-Mar of next year.
WBR, Vlad
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| Re: Another user chased away |
Thu, 17 October 2013 05:30 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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skoormit wrote on Wed, 16 October 2013 18:10The game is not too old for newcomers. The only reason we lack new players is that it is hard to discover that this game is out there and that there are other players that you can play against.
That, and the slew of devastating bugs causing all sorts of mishaps. Yet another reason to develop a decent clone. Stars! doesn't need too much shiny, but its nuts and bolts need to be properly fastened. 
Another reason might be that in such a time-consuming endeavor, people need to trust their competitors, hosts, and umpires, and SAH fails to provide that.  That would be why players form their own local hubs, which fragments the player base. 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme!  Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Another user chased away |
Thu, 17 October 2013 05:37 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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Tomasoid wrote on Wed, 16 October 2013 14:48I started the ball rolling, but I'm still at square 1, and feel that I would be there for a long time if continue playing and if not getting any additional development help (or a budget to hire developers). I tried kickstarter web site to get some free budget, but Stars! online project does not fall into allowed (eligible) projects there.
So...
Either we keep slowly dying, or _organize_ something, finally.
URL? 
Can others browse your source code, or your design docs? Contribute advice, or patches? Beta-test? 
Can you give more details about your goals, progress, techs you're using? 
This being Stars!, everybody likes to tinker, and Team games are still popular. It would be cool to one day use Nova (or some version of it) as a client, so developers can concentrate on server-side stuff, or at least allow independent efforts for the two sides of the whole thing. 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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Another user chased away
At least we now have Nova (and Freestars, and perhaps others) But it's taking too long. 
