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Dead at the start of battle...

Fri, 14 June 2013 17:26

XAPBob

Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012

Anyone seen this before/understand what might be going on?

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/61/hfc.png

[Updated on: Fri, 14 June 2013 17:27]

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Fri, 14 June 2013 17:58

XAPBob

Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012

Interestingly - each side sees the other as dead in Round 1

There is only a frigate and a fort in the battle.

The owner of the fort sees something slightly odd:
It is reported in the battle as having 2688100 armour and no shields (despite actually having no additional armour and several shields...)

The owner of the frigate sees no shields, despite having them as well...

[img=http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/703/6p7.png]

[Updated on: Fri, 14 June 2013 18:04]

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Fri, 14 June 2013 20:19

LittleEddie

Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 517
Registered: February 2011
Location: Delaware

Since you provide no background information your pictures are worthless.

But no I've never seen your pictures before, but wouldn't expect to either.

Can you provide the game files? or at least the designs of the ships involved?

[Updated on: Fri, 14 June 2013 20:21]

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Sat, 15 June 2013 02:24

XAPBob

Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012

Sorry - don't want to give away too much info:

The armed fort and armed ship are involved in a battle with 0 rounds (the VCR says this is round "1 of 0". The erroneous armour value might be my DOSbox playing silly beggars.

Fleet 1 for player 1 is in orbit around an uninhabited planet - so shouldn't be triggering the "stars crash"

Can provide game files to individuals recommended by the forum though Wink

[Updated on: Sat, 15 June 2013 02:25]

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Sat, 15 June 2013 05:39

nmid

Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

XAPBob wrote on Sat, 15 June 2013 11:54

Can provide game files to individuals recommended by the forum though

Altruist, Neilhoward,... if they have the time. They have posted online recently so they are a good bet.
Both are experienced and have good knowledge of the game Smile

Perhaps m.a@stars as well... not sure if he's been online though.

Also, CC.. but he's a bit busy in RL.

[Updated on: Sat, 15 June 2013 05:39]

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Sat, 15 June 2013 11:24

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

XAPBob wrote on Fri, 14 June 2013 23:26

Anyone seen this before/understand what might be going on?

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/61/hfc.png

The last time I saw something like that it was due to mixing re-genned files with original (un-regenned) ones, perhaps there was a mix-up of years too. Confused

Funny things also happen if one of the designs present in a battle is deleted and then the battle reviewed, though nothing so weird. Hit over head

I'd like to see the original files, if you can email them to me (h, x, m, conveniently zipped) Sherlock

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Sat, 15 June 2013 11:35

XAPBob

Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012

Will collate the files.

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Sat, 15 June 2013 23:31

neilhoward

Commander

Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023

I suspect MA is correct about deleted ship/SB design. You might try loading the turn with only the xy and m files (ie move the history and x file out of the folder). I have seen many display conflicts arise due to the difference in how the game calculates and sends data to to player clients.

Is the game on SAH? If not, what versions are the players using?

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Sun, 16 June 2013 07:11

skoormit

Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama

neilhoward wrote on Sat, 15 June 2013 22:31

I suspect MA is correct about deleted ship/SB design. You might try loading the turn with only the xy and m files (ie move the history and x file out of the folder). I have seen many display conflicts arise due to the difference in how the game calculates and sends data to to player clients.

Is the game on SAH? If not, what versions are the players using?

The game is on SAH. I am one of the players involved. It is a no-comms game, so I would like to avoid revealing game-specific details here.

When XAPBob viewed the turn, he did so with only the .m and the .xy. I had not at that point sent him my game files.

Since both the fort (mine) and the other player's ship both still exist after the non-battle, this seems like a battle engine bug rather than a VCR display quirk.

Also to note: the display quirk occurred in two consecutive years (same planet, same ship, upgraded fort from one year to the next).

[Updated on: Sun, 16 June 2013 07:15]

What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Sun, 16 June 2013 19:11

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

skoormit wrote on Sun, 16 June 2013 13:11

this seems like a battle engine bug rather than a VCR display quirk.

Also to note: the display quirk occurred in two consecutive years (same planet, same ship, upgraded fort from one year to the next).

With JRC4, I'm getting a GPF when trying to review Player#3's battle, while Player#4's seems to be just a token battle report with both sides "dead" and doing nothing. Shocked

Looks like something probably went FUBAR the previous year(s) and now the whole game might be corrupted and on the brink of crashing for good. Evil or Very Mad

Wish I knew what the best way to proceed is. Grabbing some old files and trying a regen could be one of the options. Sherlock

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Mon, 17 June 2013 01:05

nmid

Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 17 June 2013 04:41

skoormit wrote on Sun, 16 June 2013 13:11
this seems like a battle engine bug rather than a VCR display quirk.

Also to note: the display quirk occurred in two consecutive years (same planet, same ship, upgraded fort from one year to the next).

With JRC4, I'm getting a GPF when trying to review Player#3's battle, while Player#4's seems to be just a token battle report with both sides "dead" and doing nothing.

Looks like something probably went FUBAR the previous year(s) and now the whole game might be corrupted and on the brink of crashing for good.

Wish I knew what the best way to proceed is. Grabbing some old files and trying a regen could be one of the options.

Check the battle orders.
It's happened to me in homeless as well, where I get a GPF fault (using jrc4) with my ping orders (attack fuel ships only, so if no sfx exist, the pinger doesn't move) attacking a dock planet (no ships in orbit). However, when viewed in dosbox(?), the turn can be viewed.
The turn can be played in jrc, as long as the battle isn't viewed.

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Mon, 17 June 2013 07:05

magic9mushroom

Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008

m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 17 June 2013 09:11

Looks like something probably went FUBAR the previous year(s) and now the whole game might be corrupted and on the brink of crashing for good.

Okay, who received Missingno from the Mystery Trader? Laughing

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Mon, 17 June 2013 09:29

Eagle of Fire

Lt. Commander

Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5

The two things I'd check first would be:

1) Did one of the players involved changed their default order and one of the ship is using it / been built this year over the planet?

2) Where is and what is doing ship fleet #1 from player #1.

-EoF

STARS! Wiki
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I am on a hot streak... Literally.

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Mon, 17 June 2013 09:59

skoormit

Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama

Eagle of Fire wrote on Mon, 17 June 2013 08:29

The two things I'd check first would be:

1) Did one of the players involved changed their default order and one of the ship is using it / been built this year over the planet?

I will check with the other player to determine if his ship is using non-default orders.

Eagle of Fire wrote on Mon, 17 June 2013 08:29

The two things I'd check first would be:

2) Where is and what is doing ship fleet #1 from player #1.

As XAPBob mentioned above, player #1 fleet #1 is in orbit around an uninhabited planet.

What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Mon, 17 June 2013 14:45

gjarvie

Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 16
Registered: April 2012

I'm the other player involved. The ship in question is set to Sniper, plus a few years ago the Sniper order was altered and then put back to it's original settings (I think I changed unarmed ships to something else and then changed my mind). I don't know if this is relevant.

For me the battles show as Phase 1 of 0, round 1 of 1 and nothing happens. Last year both my ship and the fort showed as dead at the start. This year, however, they both have the correct stats. I've never seen the fort as having millions of armour, only dead or the correct value.

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Mon, 17 June 2013 18:08

skoormit

Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama

The fact that you were using Sniper orders confirms for me, I think, that this is a VCR display glitch after all, and not a problem with the battle engine itself. We should not have had a battle after all.

I ran a quick and dirty test and reproduced the issue using Sniper orders and the exact designs of your ship and my fort.

Only one question left for me. If I've ever used the default Sniper orders (or similar tactics), it's been a long time, so tell me: does the game usually show a non-battle battle (0 rounds, no ship movement, no firing) when a ship with Sniper orders orbits a planet with an armed fort?

What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Mon, 17 June 2013 18:23

nmid

Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

skoormit wrote on Tue, 18 June 2013 03:38

Only one question left for me. If I've ever used the default Sniper orders (or similar tactics), it's been a long time, so tell me: does the game usually show a non-battle battle (0 rounds, no ship movement, no firing) when a ship with Sniper orders orbits a planet with an armed fort?

I can confirm that.

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Mon, 17 June 2013 19:09

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

skoormit wrote on Tue, 18 June 2013 00:08

does the game usually show a non-battle battle (0 rounds, no ship movement, no firing) when a ship with Sniper orders orbits a planet with an armed fort?

I've had plenty of non-battles due to fancy battleorders in the past. Nothing like this, though. Sherlock

Also, if there's bit-rot spreading over the game's files, as genned here at SAH, you'd do well to have backups for everything just in case the whole thing crashes for good and a rollback is needed. Whip

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Tue, 18 June 2013 13:29

skoormit

Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama

nmid wrote on Mon, 17 June 2013 17:23

skoormit wrote on Tue, 18 June 2013 03:38
Only one question left for me. If I've ever used the default Sniper orders (or similar tactics), it's been a long time, so tell me: does the game usually show a non-battle battle (0 rounds, no ship movement, no firing) when a ship with Sniper orders orbits a planet with an armed fort?

I can confirm that.

Good enough for me.

My tests reveal that the problem goes away when an actual battle occurs (by someone bringing a non-sniping ship to the planet, for example).

When this game is complete I'll post complete details of the problem and how to trigger it.

What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Tue, 18 June 2013 16:22

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

skoormit wrote on Tue, 18 June 2013 19:29

When this game is complete I'll post complete details of the problem and how to trigger it.

Why wait?

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Tue, 18 June 2013 17:17

skoormit

Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama

m.a@stars wrote on Tue, 18 June 2013 15:22

skoormit wrote on Tue, 18 June 2013 19:29
When this game is complete I'll post complete details of the problem and how to trigger it.

Why wait?

Because it is a no-comms game.

What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Tue, 18 June 2013 22:01

LittleEddie

Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 517
Registered: February 2011
Location: Delaware

So if I can recap,

We have a armed ship with Battle Plans set to Sniper,

Primary Target = Unarmed Ships
Secondary Target = None/Disengage
Tactic: = Disengage if Challenged

Attacking a armed Fort with no armed ships(of same player) in orbit, now a Fort (any fort, dock, station) can't start a battle, it has to be started by a armed ship.

So the ship starts the battle and then disengages as the armed Fort is challenging it and they never get in range of each other to fire their weapons.

In the real world (in the game) both the ship and the fort are still orbiting the planet, unharmed. In the Battle VCR they are both dead or some other thing. So this is a Battle VCR bug that doesn't effect the game itself.

Is that about right.

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Wed, 19 June 2013 02:42

XAPBob

Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012

yes.

There was another wierdness that I'm putting down to my dosbox setup, and just running with the latest m, and xy (since I don't have h access)

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Wed, 19 June 2013 04:39

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

LittleEddie wrote on Wed, 19 June 2013 04:01

So this is a Battle VCR bug that doesn't effect the game itself.

Is that about right.

Don't forget the GPF, though that could be caused by something as silly as a divide-by-zero. Razz

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Dead at the start of battle...

Wed, 19 June 2013 09:34

skoormit

Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama

XAPBob wrote on Wed, 19 June 2013 01:42

yes.

There was another wierdness that I'm putting down to my dosbox setup, and just running with the latest m, and xy (since I don't have h access)

FWIW, I reproduced the huge-armor-value weirdness as well, with a current .h in use. Running Windows XP via Windows Virtual PC on Windows 7 (and a partridge in a pear tree).

I'm still not certain why the armor weirdness happened for you when viewing my game files (without the .h) and also happened in my test, but did not happen for me in the game.

More study will be required if people want to really nail that part down, but since in the final analysis it is only a display glitch for a non-battle battle, I'm not sure it's worth the effort. (Oh who am I kidding, I know we all like to dig into this stuff.)

Again, I'll post the full details after the game is over. I'm super-paranoid about leaking game info in a non-comms game.

What we need's a few good taters.

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