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Game idea Fri, 17 May 2013 14:23 Go to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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In traditional school yard fashion the PRTs are chosen in order, by players as they turn up. Only one of each allowed.

To provide some balance all players must leave ?30? points in the RW for each player after him (I.e. up to 270 points for the first player). Or a points grade like F1 (25 for first gap, 18, 15...)

Again in school yard fashion I propose that any game mechanic is permitted (I.e. no hex editing, but if the game engine allows it then so be it) unless of course players want to self police Smile


[Updated on: Fri, 17 May 2013 14:23]

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Re: Game idea Sat, 25 May 2013 20:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
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Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

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Re: Game idea Tue, 28 May 2013 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
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Quote:
Again in school yard fashion I propose that any game mechanic is permitted (I.e. no hex editing, but if the game engine allows it then so be it) unless of course players want to self police


The problem with self policing is that the most game distorting cheats can't be detected by other players or even an Observer race, someone has to look at a series of turns to find them.

I check every turn of the games I host

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Re: Game idea Tue, 28 May 2013 22:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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LittleEddie wrote on Wed, 29 May 2013 09:32
Quote:
Again in school yard fashion I propose that any game mechanic is permitted (I.e. no hex editing, but if the game engine allows it then so be it) unless of course players want to self police


The problem with self policing is that the most game distorting cheats can't be detected by other players or even an Observer race, someone has to look at a series of turns to find them.

I check every turn of the games I host


That's kinda the point. Anything that doesn't get you dogpiled by the other players is AOK.

I do have to say that I'm somewhat unclear on whether this game would permit the [freepop] hack and .m file data-extraction. Given that these two make all the other known exploits pale into insignificance (Pop Steal's the only one that even comes close), it's a rather important question.


[Updated on: Tue, 28 May 2013 22:14]

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Re: Game idea Wed, 29 May 2013 02:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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Hex editing banned...
It's in game mechanics which are allowed (so, for instance, I'd expect to see lots of podless colony shops flying around - and probably alpha torps late in the game).

Little Eddie: What cheats are you thinking of?
Are they distorting if everyone can do them?

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Re: Game idea Wed, 29 May 2013 03:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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XAPBob wrote on Wed, 29 May 2013 16:42
Hex editing banned...
It's in game mechanics which are allowed (so, for instance, I'd expect to see lots of podless colony shops flying around - and probably alpha torps late in the game).

Little Eddie: What cheats are you thinking of?
Are they distorting if everyone can do them?


.m file data-mining isn't hex editing, and it's quite difficult to police (IIRC AutoHost salts its .m files so that they can't be data-mined, though). Early-game Freepop Hacking can't be seen by another player.


[Updated on: Wed, 29 May 2013 03:05]

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Re: Game idea Wed, 29 May 2013 11:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
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magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 29 May 2013 03:04
XAPBob wrote on Wed, 29 May 2013 16:42

Little Eddie: What cheats are you thinking of?
Are they distorting if everyone can do them?


.m file data-mining isn't hex editing, and it's quite difficult to police (IIRC AutoHost salts its .m files so that they can't be data-mined, though). Early-game Freepop Hacking can't be seen by another player.


Free Pop is the big one, and you can get away with it even in the late game as the only sign of it is a fleet over an empty planet. Since a player doesn't have the cheaters habs or growth rate and never has that good of information on the population of each planet it's almost impossible to see.


How to spot the Free-Pop hack:
First you need to understand how it's done:
Start the turn with
1. A fleet over an empty planet that has less then a full load of people, the rest can be filled with B/I/G to hide the not full load.
2. Unload onto the planet.
3. Mess with the computer a little bit (Don't even ASK).
4. Load the fleet full of people. (leave the B/I/G behind)
5. Move to your planet and unload.

So first spot a fleet over an empty planet with min. people and mark it.
Next year, find the fleet and ensure the numbers are correct.
If it's at a planet you have to take into account
a. planet growth
b. arriving fleets
c. departing fleets
d. anything else that can change the population size.

And as a player you can't normally see a,b,c & d well enough to spot it unless they just load up every planet to 100%+ pop.

Edit: So a player can take a 13% race for 275+- points in the race wizard and boost the growth rate in-game to 19% and I don't think the other players will ever see it.





[Updated on: Wed, 29 May 2013 11:25]

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Re: Game idea Wed, 29 May 2013 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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So how can a host see it in a normal game?

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Re: Game idea Wed, 29 May 2013 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
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This is why in games I host I always want the current race password.

And a word of warning, the use of this cheat will get you banned from ever playing Stars against people again.

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Re: Game idea Wed, 29 May 2013 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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LittleEddie wrote on Thu, 30 May 2013 01:35
This is why in games I host I always want the current race password.

And a word of warning, the use of this cheat will get you banned from ever playing Stars against people again.


Unless it's in a game where it's explicitly allowed, or in a testbed, of course. I don't think anyone cares how badly you crush the AI. Laughing



Bob: A host can see it by examining the .x file and noting that colonists are being net loaded from an empty planet, since the ability to make that nonsensical order is the point of the hack.

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Re: Game idea Wed, 29 May 2013 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
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Quote:
title=magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 29 May 2013 19:27


Bob: A host can see it by examining the .x file and noting that colonists are being net loaded from an empty planet, since the ability to make that nonsensical order is the point of the hack.



Yes, but the host doesn't normally have access to the .x file. The host can upload a .x file with his/her host password but not download a .x file uploaded by a player. I don't know what Ron keeps as I've never had to ask him for a copy of the game files.


[Updated on: Wed, 29 May 2013 19:57]

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Re: Game idea Wed, 29 May 2013 21:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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LittleEddie wrote on Thu, 30 May 2013 09:56
Yes, but the host doesn't normally have access to the .x file. The host can upload a .x file with his/her host password but not download a .x file uploaded by a player. I don't know what Ron keeps as I've never had to ask him for a copy of the game files.


Hmm. Well, an actual host can still do it. Razz

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Re: Game idea Thu, 30 May 2013 03:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leonidas

 
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XAPBob wrote on Fri, 17 May 2013 14:23
In traditional school yard fashion the PRTs are chosen in order, by players as they turn up. Only one of each allowed.

To provide some balance all players must leave ?30? points in the RW for each player after him (I.e. up to 270 points for the first player). Or a points grade like F1 (25 for first gap, 18, 15...)

Again in school yard fashion I propose that any game mechanic is permitted (I.e. no hex editing, but if the game engine allows it then so be it) unless of course players want to self police Smile


Universe size? AR's don't do well in cramped environments. PP's in a Tiny! Alliances?

I've had to look up the bugs/features to get a grip on what this would entail.

I'd suggest that the lists be used as the guide and you should specifically indicate that anything in the lists are allowed with the exception of ... e.g. free pop hack.

Further, all entering into a game such as this should go into it prepared NOT to get upset when they get burnt by someone using these bugs/features against them.

When I first looked at this I was instinctively against (or wasn't prepared to go to the effort of ) learning how to use the game mechanics in this way, but on reflection, I guess it will teach participants what to be aware of in normal games.

leonidas.

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Re: Game idea Thu, 30 May 2013 03:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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Size of the school yard would have to depend on the number of interested players^H students.

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Re: Game idea Thu, 30 May 2013 08:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leonidas

 
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XAPBob wrote on Thu, 30 May 2013 03:44
Size of the school yard would have to depend on the number of interested players^H students.


The number of interested players may depend on the size of the yard.

leonidas.

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Re: Game idea Thu, 30 May 2013 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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leonidas wrote on Thu, 30 May 2013 17:32
PP's in a Tiny!


OWW, when it refers to PP, isn't just an abbreviation, it's an exclamation. Laughing


[Updated on: Thu, 30 May 2013 18:43]

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Re: Game idea Fri, 31 May 2013 04:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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Yard will be about medium/normal (288 stars) - one option either side on each setting possible by player agreement.
It'll not be tiny (so dual planets for IT/PP)
I also think only ticking the following:
- AccBBS
- Galaxy clumping

No pre-game alliances, but in the game there will be a single, unanimously voted*, victor (who can then thank his 'gang')
* Any "victor" votes you receive you can pass to your 'gang leader'

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Re: Game idea Fri, 07 June 2013 23:59 Go to previous message
neilhoward

 
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Ron keeps a minimum of 5 year x file history. The host can manually download the player's current x file from the game page once submitted.

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