Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Bar » Game idea : Gods ("Alchemy Gods"... "Tech Gods"... "Gifting Gods"... ok, just "Gods".)
| Game idea : Gods |
Sat, 02 March 2013 01:43  |
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Thinking of starting a game called "Gods".
Host will be playing a non-participating(non winning) race. This "God" race will grant tech and minerals each year.
Compulsory mine settings of 5/15/5. UR/MA/ARM optional, even encouraged. Hardly see them in a regular game.
The Gods will drop a set amount of minerals each year on every occupied planet for a period of, say 35(perhaps 50? suggestions please @1) years.
After the (35-50 years) the gods decide to distance themselves from their unruly children races as they aren't respectful enough seeing they are building ships, miners and researching tech on their own.
Faced with a sudden cessation of minerals and tech, the humans are forced to look for.. other sources of minerals and tech.
All players will have their level of tech (built by the host player every (5?) years) as scrapper sets and placed on uncolonised border planets.
Locations will be decided by the host. These will stay on the planet.
Think of them as undefended temples (you could send troops to fortify them, but the temples will remain undefended till you get there. The host will make sure that other races will have planets close enough to attack them at the same time, or even before you reach. Ofcourse other races will have to have attack ships ready.
The fame of these temples will make them well known to all (pen-scans not reqd).
However, tech lvls will not be announced. Only after 'winning' it, will you know what tech it was.
(Might convert into capture the flag mode. Stay the lone alive player at end of battle, and the relics belong to you. They will then be free to be taken to your worlds where they will be transferred and free to scrap.)
A BONUS of (5-10? suggestions please @2) times the MA done will be granted to the race.
(Mineral cost will be 2-3(suggestions please @3) times remote miner costs. will calculate the final bonus multiple accordingly)
Pleased by the worship of the race, the gods will continue granting this gift to their disciples,despite stopping other gifts.
(I.e, perhaps even after the window period, but at a lower rate of 3x? (suggestions please @4).. to counter the more abundant resources?)
The minerals can be either (at option of player)
>Dropped as minerals
>Granted in the form of ships, with a delay of 3-5 years (shipping time).
A race can build remote miners anytime, but from five years of being built, the gods will stop granting gifts.
(Even if you don't build any miners, the gifts will stop at the pre-decided time).
(Basically remote miners being built in the 'gift' period will be a trigger insult).
The minerals dropped will be
a> a proportion of total pop and in any ratio of I/B/G as decided by the player
OR
b> A fixed amount per race.
(Will be distributed to each world...? Perhaps to reduce host mm, x number of privs will be given per world?(suggestions please@5)
Weapons will be set to expensive.
Scrapper ships till weap7(#1) will be granted by the God race.
(#1> weap7 as that will make players choose to research weap8 on their own).
For -f races, weap9 & weap10 scrappers will be provided as well.
(to balance the time advantage of other races getting free weapons, which a -f would have researched on his own anyway)
(research weap8 on your own in the same year you get weap7. Weap 9 will be scrapped immediately after weap7, giving no window period in between).
The scrapper sets WILL be scrapped by the players in one year. No hoarding or scrapping a lower number.
If 10 ships are finally decided as a standard scrapper set, *ALL* 10 will be scrapped.
The scrappers (& the mineral ships) will be a good reason to have UR in your race design.
UR/MA/ARM optional.
Depending on participating players, following will be decided:
(current settings in parenthesis):
>Friend setting - limitation of gate access/minefield movement, refueling at bases (not allowed)
>NAPs/borders (allowed)
>Tech trading (not allowed) [host will ensure that the 'temples' method isn't abused by coope
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[Updated on: Sat, 02 March 2013 03:38]
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| Re: Game idea : Gods |
Sat, 02 March 2013 13:41  |
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Yup.. I'll be checking the turns and the game messages for all MA messages.
Won't be that bad...
Or I could go on a limb, use a bit on faith and accept the number told to me by the player.
I could check a few times if the number told to me is correct or not.. If it isn't, a penalty of 100 times  .
Don't think anyone's going to take that risk.
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The tech (weap relevant) will be given to each player on their HW or any world they decide.
Hopefully early days, so won't be too much MM for me.
It will be transferred to them, so they can get the advantage of the resources boost as well.
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As for weapon tech scrappers, I'll be granting *upto* level 7 weapons to everyone, and additonally weap9/10 to -f players.
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As for the temples, they will be on the borders / midpoints between players HWs (or somewhere similar) and will be a free for all.
First person to have a ship on the planet, gains control of the temple.
The temple's relics will then be moved to the owner's worlds and will be transferred once it reaches the planet.
They will move along with the owner's ship, so will be limited to whatever speed they can sustain.
This means the caravan can be waylaid as well, by other players.
The temples are going to be the high points of the race's tech out of the 6 tech fields.
I will place two temples (10 scrappers of a selected tech) for each neighbour the race has...
This will finally be adjusted to how many players sign on and how many borders exist.
1 good tech, 1 mediocre tech. Unknown tech to both the race as well as the neighbour.
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For eg, player A, player B and player C are the only three players in the game.
There will be 4 temples for each player, rebuilt every 7 years.
(as per the current numbers planned for the game)
2 temples of player A, on the border shared with player B
and 2 temples of player A on the border shared with player C.
Player A will also be in range of 2 temples of player B and 2 temples of player C, on the same borders.
So each border will have 4 temples.
Sounds a lot, but considering they are going to be rebuilt only every 7 years (perhaps 5..) + the lag in getting to a world for scrapping, it will be a bad idea to depend only on temples for tech.
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| Re: Game idea : Gods |
Sun, 03 March 2013 02:08 |
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2 temples for each neighbour, so 4 temples actually.
Good and bad tech, depending on what the other race tech situation is. If he has exp energy and cheap weaps, then weap 12 might be the bad tech while en 10 might be good tech.
The tech will be the current tech the owner race is on. If I'm on en7, w11,c9,el6,prop7, bio4.... Then the temples will be from that tech list.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
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| Re: Game idea : Gods |
Mon, 04 March 2013 04:40 |
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Hi!
Please, count me in for this game.
One of the suggestions is that 35 years range for minerals "God"-gift if a little bit too large, IMO. Count how many times gift will happen throughout the entire game timespan, and you will understand what I mean. It would be much more interesting if, for example, gift will be made each 20 years.
About other options - I'll answer later when have more time...
WBR, Vlad
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| Re: Game idea : Gods |
Mon, 04 March 2013 05:18 |
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considering the really harsh mine settings, I thought that giving the gifts of minerals till 2435 was essential..
We could always reduce the amount of minerals given.
Also, the temples are just a fun part.. but if it is complicating things too much, I'll just remove that aspect completely.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
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| Re: Game idea : Gods |
Mon, 04 March 2013 13:25 |
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 scottsch |
 | Petty Officer 1st Class |
Messages: 61
Registered: September 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA | |
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nmid wrote on Sun, 03 March 2013 02:082 temples for each neighbour, so 4 temples actually.
Good and bad tech, depending on what the other race tech situation is. If he has exp energy and cheap weaps, then weap 12 might be the bad tech while en 10 might be good tech.
The tech will be the current tech the owner race is on. If I'm on en7, w11,c9,el6,prop7, bio4.... Then the temples will be from that tech list.
Got it! And when the temples are rebuilt, it's in the same place?
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| Re: Game idea : Gods |
Tue, 05 March 2013 09:06 |
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Nope, it can even be in space. It won't be predictable, nor can someone pre colonise a planet to get the temples instantly.
[Updated on: Tue, 05 March 2013 09:07]
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
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| Re: Game idea : Gods |
Wed, 06 March 2013 03:13 |
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| scottsch |
| Petty Officer 1st Class |
Messages: 61
Registered: September 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA | |
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Cool! Now I feel like I have enough info to weigh in on your questions. I like the basic idea of races having worship, rather than mines, as their way to get minerals, and remote mining being blasphemy. I'll try not to propose something completely different... which I've found is not the most fun kind of feedback. 
This is how I'd elaborate the idea: Players can go for a worship strategy, which is simpler, but they wind up being constrained by what the Gods give them. The Gods grant what they grant -- no bargaining. Or they can go for remote mining, in which case, the Gods shun them! Pious players get additional gifts for destroying blasphemers' remote miners.
A Gods-fearing player must spend a certain fraction of his resources worshiping (doing MA). This is in total, across all planets. If he does, he gets a gift from the Gods -- minerals proportional to resources on each planet. If not, no minerals! There is no bonus for extra MA (though I'm sure the Gods appreciate it).
The worship requirements are zero for the first few years and go up over time. Perhaps it goes up 10% every 5 years. The Gods don't just cut off their gifts, but they become increasingly demanding and harder to satisfy. Around 2435, worship should take a significant percentage of resources. By 2450, it should be incredibly hard or impossible.
The MA LRT is basically improved worship. It slows down the rate of increase of the Gods' requirements, perhaps increasing 5% every 5 years with a cap at 25%. The additional minerals inherent from the MA LRT is just a (very minor) bonus.
The amount of minerals gifted should be pretty decent -- enough so that players are fine for the early game, somewhat slowed in building factories, and then somewhat constrained in later game mineral-heavy warship building. For the host's sake, I'd suggest that players get an even split among I/B/G, though perhaps players with the MA LRT could choose or the Gods could grant minerals that seem to be needed.
For building miners, I like your delayed cutoff idea. To have the minerals shut off right away, several years before the miners start producing, would be way too hard.
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| Gods Q&A session with cc |
Wed, 06 March 2013 04:33 |
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Those are really good suggestions... The key being that I need to firm up some numbers.
Had a word with cc and he asked me a couple of questions.. Saves me some time and stops me from writing another wall of text.. So will just past the q&a with him here..
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ccmaster: have read your Stars game idea but don't understand it at all maybe you could explain it
N: ok... do you know roman mythology a bit?
ccmaster: yes i know
N: great.. use that as a base and I'll explain a bit more
think ancient times
when gods used to still interact with humans
ccmaster: I don't have interest in the story 
N: lol, bear with me for 2 mins
ccmaster: ok
N: so same way this god race will be providing minerals to all races
all races will be forced to take worst mine settings
ccmaster: yes and all race have to take 5 /15/5 mines
N: also, the god race will provide weap8 scrappers
all races have to take weap exp
-f races will get weap9/10 scrappers as well
weap7 scrappers.. not 8
so this will bring everyone within reach of range 2 beams
with me so far?
ccmaster: yes ... but why support -f ? they are stronger ... or do you give so much minerals ?
N: main purpose is that I want to encourage races to take MA / ARM and UR
N: so this will make ppl go for F races or HP races
so I am encouraging -f races as well
ccmaster: can you write the words out ?
ccmaster: words out ... have sometimes trouble with LRTS
N: sure.. I did mention it, but it's a wall of text in my 1st post 
ccmaster: yes I know
N: I just started writing and didn't stop
ccmaster: Advanced Robot mining .... MA and UR?
ccmaster: and as I read it right they should be optional ..... but don't Know MA or UR so say the complete words
N: yup
going to give a boost to MA too
N: if races do MA, the god race will match it and give 5 (to 10) times the minerals as well
so races will want to take MA
N: but the minerals from MA won't be more than the minerals from Miners.. need to calculate that ratio assuming mid level miners..
ccmaster: mineral Alchemy ?
N: yes
100 res = 1kt each in normal setting, right..
if you take MA, then 25 res = 1kt each
ccmaster: what is still not good
ccmaster: 5/15/5 works still better !!
N: yea, so the gods will help
if you do 100 res of research
N: you get 4 kt of minerals yourself
but the golds will give 40kt as well (each)
that's the 10x bonus
need to calculate a good ratio
so it's 3 times the cost of remote miner, but will make the MA much better.
ccmaster: 100 Resources gives 6 mines
product 3 Mineral at 100% world each round !!
N: that's the point..
no one should build mines, it's going to be a waste
only way you should aim at getting minerals is from MA, gods, scrapping, from remote miners or from wars.
ccmaster: never is a wast to have minerals ... expect you have much easier ways to get minerals
N: yes. you have to decide how to use your resources
ccmaster: UR is ultimate recycling ?
N: Yes.
N: gives you 90% resources when scrapping
and there will be a lot of scrapping
ccmaster: but why you want to support -f ?
have i read it right that the god race give the minerals every x rounds to all the planets of the player ?
N: for the starting 35 years, every year.
have to decide the proportion... but either a ratio of total pop or a fixed amount to every race.
ccmaster: so if you have more planets then you get lesser at all the planets ...
If you make it pop based the -f would still be in the lead ...
N: yup.. but if it's pop-based,
yes
ccmaster: so I don't understand why you want to support the -f with better techs .. more weapons ... more minerals ... and research on ther own much faster ... then no one will play HP
N: I see your point..
perhaps giving them weap9/10 is more of an advantage..
will cancel that... but then everyone will play F or HP races, for the resources needed to build remote miners and for MA
I thought a -f race could manage with only -f + UR... and MA
HP races will try going for all 3.. UR, MA AND ARM..
ccmaster: I still think building Mines is worth it
expect you want to disallowed it
normally all players have to play with ARM as it is needed far fast miners
N: I'll do a testbed and see how much does building mines help... if it does help.. (and if you say so, I think it would), then I'll just ban building mines.
ccmaster: you have real to balance the minerals you give away
will be real different
N: that's going to be the main challenge.. can't give away a lot at the start, or else no one will require to do any MA or build any miners
good idea.. I'll do a test bed and check how much minerals a normal race mines out
ccmaster: so no one will know how many minerals you will give them at all ?
N: will set the minerals I'm giving out for the starting 35 years that way
I'll fix it before the game starts and the races are designed.
ccmaster: k
N: good idea. ty
ccmaster: I think the main problem will be the mineral balancing and how many minerals in what time
as if you play -f you normally get much more minerals then a HP
so if you make it a fix number you have to look that it brings not to much advantage to the Factory builders
And of course AR should be banned
N: I plan in the testbed, to play a -f race.
play 35 years and see how much minerals I get each year.
for the game, I'll give 60-75% of those minerals to -f races and 50% to HP races.. (This will make them still want to MA or build miners soon)
ccmaster: so you will allowed building miners from year 2400 ?
N: if you want the gods will then stop giving you the gifts in 5 years.
build miners in 2410, they stop in 2415.
ccmaster: but you'll give minerals till 2415 ?
N: building the remote miners from 2430 is the best idea.
because the gods will anyway stop in 2435
and yes, will give till 2415
the problem is that the minerals will increase each year
assume in the test bed
N: 1st year - 100kt minerals (Just saying a random number)
10 years = 1000kt minerals
25 years = 1500kt minerals
so later years will give more minerals..
ccmaster: ok makes sense
ccmaster: do the player keep the starting minerals ?
N: from acc bbs?
didn't think about it... I would say yes
ccmaster: ok then 50 points to starting minerals would be a must !
N: good idea... but it would depend on what minerals finally i'm fixing for the 35 years.
ccmaster: also universe settings would be interesting
N: it would depend on how many players want to play
ccmaster: and the tech scrapper will come all 5 years every year ?
N: weap scrappers will come every year till you get to weap7
the other scrappers will come every 5 years, once.
till the end of the game, or till the race is alive.
ccmaster: so after you reach tech 7 weapon you give away other scrappers ?
Have first all to reach weapon 7 ?
N: only depending on what techs the other races have.
hmmm.. good point. I'll start the "temples" in 2410
enough time for everyone to get ready and do a bit of self research too
ccmaster: depending on other races techs ?
N: yes.. for eg you, sally and I are neighbours
let me open stars tech tree.. 1 sec
ccmaster: makes no sense Nmid
N: see. temples are the high points of your race
so those temples are for other races to attack
you will attack temples that belong to other races
you can't attack your own temples
as they will be techs that you already have
ccmaster: you know where the temples are ?
N: yes.. the host will announce the temple location every time he sets it.
can be in space or on planets.. but equal distance between the 2 races
ccmaster: scrapper ships ?
N: yup, 10 scrapper ships, per temple.
ccmaster: 1 race will want to defend it or kill it before the "weaker" one reach it
bu with same range the "weaker" race have only to send a Torpedo later rocket ship what is fast with good ini and they will get techs
so defending won't matter.
N: slight problem with that...
the temples will be owned by the host race
everyone will set him to friend
so can't be killed
it can only be taken back by the person who lives till the end and is the only person living
taken back to his world
where it will be xfered to him
so he can get the UR bonus as well
(Note - You can't take away your own temples...Might have some problems with the 16 ships limit, but will see what the host race can do.. Hmmm. perfect, have a potential solution. have all ships @ max levels, so only 6-12 slots will be occupied... with a few variations for combined tech scrappers..)
ccmaster: so if i understand it right
you say 2 races that in range of 2 years there is a temple
if they move there there will be nothing then maybe the other race
and the winner of the battle takes the techs
right ?
N: yes
but the ships will be seen moving away
ccmaster: so i will have chaffs all around in space and no one will gets my temples as i am always the first ....?
N: you could still attack the 'caravan'
nope.. your chaff could be killed by the other race's ships
ccmaster: if it is in range lets say 2 warp 9 pumps of the "borders" and i have chaffs everywhere so reach it in 1 year he has no chance
N: I won't make it a MM battle.. most chaff ships win ... lol.
Only regular attack fleets or a specific purpose fast DD/FF ship.
N: I'll disallow chaff ships to win the scrappers...
you can make DDs and spread them around if you want
the other neighbour will also do the same thing
ccmaster: ok
ccmaster: Frigates are cheaper
N: DDs can be faster
ccmaster: but anyway will be a big disadvantage for race that research by there own
N: yup...
but it's only once every 5 years
and only 2 techs
so might not make that much of a difference
ccmaster: so only one tech level every 5 years ?
N: 4 techs, 2 techs per neighbour.
ccmaster: then it depend what tech level you take if there are more then one better
N: no.
it will be 4 techs per player.. 2 on each border that they can win.
if they win all 4, they will have to decide what to scrap 1st
N: and remember, you don't know what tech those temples have..
ccmaster: yes
but what is when :
ccmaster: you have better tech in Bio Elec and weapon
what will be give away ?
or is it random ?
it would be real hard if you research weapon expensive special in the higher level when the others get it free
N: that's why you will have to protect your temples
N: and if you have
en/weap/prop/con/elec/bio
6/10/7/9/2/4
while your neighbour has
10/10/5/6/2/4
then your temples will be en10 and weap10
while his temples will be prop7 and elec9
ccmaster: energy 10 and weapon 10 if both have weapon 10 ?
N: yup... there was no other good tech to make a temple
and that was the highest.
so you might get bad temples if your neighbour has bad tech
you might be better off, just defending your own temples
another way (a bit slow though) to get to know their approx tech level
ccmaster: why not both temples energy 10 ?
N: hmmm, good point
I was going for 1 good tech and one normal tech... but I guess I can do both temples from the same tech
ccmaster: for this example tech 8 and 10....
N: as in I was thinking that 1 temple would be a really good temple for you... but the other temple will be a barren or a bad temple for you
N: As you have to scrap all the ships in one go, if you get en8 or e10, you will still get +1 tech from each temple... so both temples are good for you
you can't scrap half of en10 scrappers and then the other half of en10 scrappers next year.
ccmaster: why not ?
give always 5 Ships
and the player could go for what they want
is even easier to control Ö:P
N: 5 ships could mean you don't get a tech when you scrap them
if I give 10, then confirmed scrap tech
ccmaster: you want to play with "bad" temples ... but not with scrap fails ? the god was against this scrap if it don't work
N: lol!!! Nice one.
N: But only I'm the god in this small little universe
ccmaster: Will give a IT real big advantages as he could move his fleets to the nearest gates to the temple and capture it with mighty forces
yes, IT races will have an advantage.. even though i will try balancing it that the temples will be mid way in space between both neighbours
ccmaster: when you have more numbers I could say more to it ... think most important is Mineral balancing
N: will make it easier for ppl to understand
yea... test bedding is the most important next step
ccmaster: but make the writings shorter so more will read it and respond .. your messages are too heavy
N: lol.. yea
N: I'll create a new thread called Gods II, with 2 para summary
but after I do the testbed and have confirmed numbers
ccmaster: yes would help also you should point the galaxy
or at least a dense and a planet number / Player
N: I was aiming at 30 planets per player
also in my wall of text
headslam
ccmaster: to much text
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Game idea : Gods |
Wed, 06 March 2013 04:37 |
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Btw linking to mineral alchemy might work, but not as a % of total resources, but rather a fixed number each year.
That would make things more interesting, when races find putting 1000 resources into ma being only 10% or 40% of their total resources...depending on how well they are doing.
Putting a fixed % would actually help weaker races.
[Updated on: Wed, 06 March 2013 06:12]
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| racepoints |
Sat, 09 March 2013 10:08 |
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scottsch wrote on Thu, 07 March 2013 20:49Killing our mine settings gives 450 advantage points. Are we going to be required to leave that many points over, or will we all create super races?
Good question.
Plus weapon expensive.
My suggestion would be that everybody must take ARM, UR, MA plus 300 (or more?) leftover pts.
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| Re: racepoints |
Sun, 10 March 2013 13:38 |
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| scottsch |
| Petty Officer 1st Class |
Messages: 61
Registered: September 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA | |
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Also, AR should probably be banned... unless you want to test balancing them, but you can save that for Mineral Gods 2.
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