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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 04:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

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Not convinced by BET, for a beginner game I'd rather have the simplicity of knowing when things will be available, rather than having to go in and check that I've gone tech+1 on everything...

GR would slow everyone down, and make tech trade slightly less attractive, so would be:

[img][url]http://www.simong.org/myfiles/weevilsbig.jpg[/url][/img]

I'd leave PPS up to the host - it's a beginner game, so might be kind of useful - but with a non playing host we could get "semi-public" scores every decade or so (even partial info without race names associated) which would still require serious intelligence gathering effort. If one race was romping then the host might still think it appropriate to drop them in it Wink


[Updated on: Wed, 10 October 2012 04:44]

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 04:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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[XAP
Bob wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 19:38]Not convinced by BET, for a beginner game I'd rather have the simplicity of knowing when things will be available, rather than having to go in and check that I've gone tech+1 on everything...


In the tech browser, it does note if something is Bleeding Edge. It's written in huge overlay letters over the description.


EDIT: Beginners are unlikely to know how to manipulate PPS. I've seen it done, without technically violating False Public Player Scores, in Tenderfoot - nmid kept a large amount of population in transit at all times to fool others about how big his pop was until he was ready to take on the universe (having wiped out one race and intersettled with 3 others).


[Updated on: Wed, 10 October 2012 04:52]

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 04:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

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magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 04:42
[XAP
Bob wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 19:38]Not convinced by BET, for a beginner game I'd rather have the simplicity of knowing when things will be available, rather than having to go in and check that I've gone tech+1 on everything...


In the tech browser, it does note if something is Bleeding Edge. It's written in huge overlay letters over the description.


And in ship design?
Production queues?
What about Planetary scanners / defenses - are they double price if you've "just upgraded"

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 04:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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[XAP
Bob wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 19:47]magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 04:42
[XAP
Bob wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 19:38]Not convinced by BET, for a beginner game I'd rather have the simplicity of knowing when things will be available, rather than having to go in and check that I've gone tech+1 on everything...


In the tech browser, it does note if something is Bleeding Edge. It's written in huge overlay letters over the description.


And in ship design?
Production queues?
What about Planetary scanners / defenses - are they double price if you've "just upgraded"


Ship design, yes, if you click on the item to get the popup tech browser entry. Not production queues, and planetary scanners/defenses are not affected by miniaturisation at all, including BET.

But yes, it's a hassle.

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 05:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

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magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 04:53
But yes, it's a hassle.

And on that basis I vote against it for a beginner game.

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 05:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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[XAP
Bob wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 20:08]magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 04:53
But yes, it's a hassle.

And on that basis I vote against it for a beginner game.


One less hassle for me! Yey

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 06:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 05:48
[XAP
Bob wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 20:08]magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 04:53
But yes, it's a hassle.

And on that basis I vote against it for a beginner game.


One less hassle for me! Yey


Maybe BET for those who have played 4 games against humans Wink ( http://starsautohost.org/sahforum2/index.php?t=msg&th=51 45) Laughing

PS - This is not a serious suggestion, unless we think that one or more of the players are significantly more/less experienced...

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 06:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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[XAP
Bob wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 21:00]magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 05:48
[XAP
Bob wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 20:08]magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 04:53
But yes, it's a hassle.

And on that basis I vote against it for a beginner game.


One less hassle for me! Yey


Maybe BET for those who have played 4 games against humans Wink ( http://starsautohost.org/sahforum2/index.php?t=msg&th=51 45) Laughing

PS - This is not a serious suggestion, unless we think that one or more of the players are significantly more/less experienced...


Unless you think my factories are going to sprout rocket engines and ram your ships to death, I don't think anyone has a great deal to fear from poor incompetent me.

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 07:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 12:14
Unless you think my factories are going to sprout rocket engines and ram your ships to death, I don't think anyone has a great deal to fear from poor incompetent me.

What a beautiful exercise in one of the Murphy's Military Laws:

"Don't look conspicuous; it draws fire." Smile

Gents... watch out for this guy Twisted Evil

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 08:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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loucipher wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 22:12
What a beautiful exercise in one of the Murphy's Military Laws:

"Don't look conspicuous; it draws fire." Smile

Gents... watch out for this guy Twisted Evil


Indeed, watch out for silver-tongued diplomats who attempt to turn your wrath against harmless autistic theorycrafters. Confused


[Updated on: Wed, 10 October 2012 08:02]

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 14:02
Indeed, watch out for silver-tongued diplomats who attempt to turn your wrath against harmless autistic theorycrafters. Confused


Who, sir? Me, sir? Certainly not, sir! Angel

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sprocket is currently offline sprocket

 
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[XAP
Bob wrote on Tue, 09 October 2012 12:27]What do I understand the game to be at the moment:

Host:
sprocket (Who I'll PM in a moment)

Players (8):
Asmodai, TRSMMaiden, magic9mushroom, franknorman, [XAP]Bob, loucifer, Little Eddie, kicks

Game setup:
- Medium Normal
- No AccBBS
- Random events
- Slow tech
- Distant starting positions

Racial restrictions:
- JoAT (100) and CA (200) take (points) penalties - to be set to defences (unless penalty exceeded by 50 points)
- Weapons tech must be expensive
- BET/GR/trading restrictions for discussion <- None applied?

Playing rules:
- "Kill Starbase" battle order is banned
- Standard cheat disclaimer:
- - Split fleet/chaff/heal after gate all allowed
- - Min damage not allowed (no strict regulations to enforce?)

Communications:
- Should we require that people meet in the game first - and exchange email details via in game message, or just PM each other here?


Its seems BET/GR is out and your rules decisions are finished, yes?

To enforce minimum damage bug rule I suggest alpha/beta torps banned for further construction after turn 50 or when a player gets Jihad tech. Other ideas welcome how to deal with that issue.

If you want to send me race files my email is sprocket262@sbcglobal.net please don't password anything, its not necessary with autohost upload code.




Dieter of sprockets

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

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As in: No new builds of alpha/beta (ships?) *after* 2450 or *after* you get Jihads (whichever is earlier).

I think the last SAS discussion also ended up with "must fill a star base slot with torpedoes before you start another" rule, but that's less critical.
Banning them after 2450 seems rational - I think we'll be well into jihads by then.

I like the elegance of the rule as well.

Also good to know that P'word protection not needed Smile

Also - PPS off?
Would you be willing to offer score "hints" once a decade?


[Updated on: Wed, 10 October 2012 09:44]

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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sprocket wrote on Thu, 11 October 2012 00:25
If you want to send me race files my email is sprocket262@sbcglobal.net please don't password anything, its not necessary with autohost upload code.



How long do we have? I need to finish testbedding my race to make sure it doesn't spontaneously combust or something. Having to deal with habitability again after playing 3i HE is... weird. Razz


[Updated on: Wed, 10 October 2012 10:07]

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 11:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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You need high temp tolerance to avoid spontaneous combustion on some planets...

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sprocket is currently offline sprocket

 
Chief Warrant Officer 1

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I would be happy to offer hints but we need to unanimously agree on a criteria because this is a tricky thing that could easily ruin the game.

About PPS I think its best left off but its up to everyone else, PPS can be easily manipulated to deceive, for example during stoneage slog I only built thousands of cruisers and NO cap ships which lowered my score a lot since everyone had hundreds of battleships, my greatest rival "the Enlightened" knew his score was higher than mine (this is with PPS off) and because of this he overestimated his strength and the resulting peace deals put him way behind (stinky Jim quitting also contributed), anyway I have always believed fog of war makes for much more fun but you guys decide, most games have it off.



Dieter of sprockets

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 16:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sprocket is currently offline sprocket

 
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magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 10 October 2012 10:02


How long do we have? I need to finish testbedding my race to make sure it doesn't spontaneously combust or something. Having to deal with habitability again after playing 3i HE is... weird. Razz


You still have time, I can't do anything until after weekend anyway.



Dieter of sprockets

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 17:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kicks is currently offline kicks

 
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Pls count me out.
I decided to join Epic cause the no tech trade rule is my favourite.
thx

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 18:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

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Only hints I could think of as useful would be a list of scores in numerical order each decade (except the first???)

Kind of a 'very poor' mans PPS.

Not having anything is probably easiest to define, and a known schedule makes spoofing easier....

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Re: Another beginner game Wed, 10 October 2012 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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[XAP
Bob wrote on Thu, 11 October 2012 09:37]Only hints I could think of as useful would be a list of scores in numerical order each decade (except the first???)

Kind of a 'very poor' mans PPS.

Not having anything is probably easiest to define, and a known schedule makes spoofing easier....


Actually, it makes spoofing trivially easy once you have LFs. You can see what rank you are in the player scores anyway.

There is a way to turn PPS on "late", that being to set an in-game victory condition but continue playing past it.

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Re: Another beginner game Thu, 11 October 2012 02:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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Off then Smile
I'd never realty considered how easily they were spoofed, but of course that can affect rank as well...

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Re: Another beginner game Thu, 11 October 2012 04:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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[XAP
Bob wrote on Thu, 11 October 2012 17:51]Off then Smile
I'd never realty considered how easily they were spoofed, but of course that can affect rank as well...


You can only see what rank you are, not what rank anyone else is.

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Re: Another beginner game Thu, 11 October 2012 05:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
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If I can drop myself in rank then that promotes others.

If you're in a "non spoofed" 2nd, and I'm a "spoofed" 4th then you might be ill advised to attack - 'cos I would be 1st without spoofing and you'd be third. Potentially it's even worse if others are spoofing as well.

May I suggest a gentleman's agreement to not spoof, there are plenty of reasons to have pop in space (maximising planet growth, IS orgies, general transport). If I'm reading it correctly then you need to drop at WP0 for this to work, so that's fairly easy *not* to do. With backed up turns sprocket could retro-check any suspected abuses.


[Updated on: Thu, 11 October 2012 05:31]

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Re: Another beginner game Thu, 11 October 2012 07:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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Messages: 1361
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[XAP
Bob wrote on Thu, 11 October 2012 20:02]If I can drop myself in rank then that promotes others.

If you're in a "non spoofed" 2nd, and I'm a "spoofed" 4th then you might be ill advised to attack - 'cos I would be 1st without spoofing and you'd be third. Potentially it's even worse if others are spoofing as well.

May I suggest a gentleman's agreement to not spoof, there are plenty of reasons to have pop in space (maximising planet growth, IS orgies, general transport). If I'm reading it correctly then you need to drop at WP0 for this to work, so that's fairly easy *not* to do. With backed up turns sprocket could retro-check any suspected abuses.


Oh, I don't plan to do any spoofing, but it removes most of the temptation if PPS is off.

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Re: Another beginner game Thu, 11 October 2012 09:00 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
sprocket is currently offline sprocket

 
Chief Warrant Officer 1

Messages: 138
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I believe we are overthinking the spoofing, its really not a big deal and it is a part of disinformation that has its own cost, focus should be more on solid play.

Plus I do not want to police possible spoofing.



Dieter of sprockets

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