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PVT and HDTV etc |
Thu, 27 March 2003 20:06 |
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I saw a 42" Plasma screen HDTV on sale today with a digital computer connection too. I don't think you'd have much of a problem seeing a huge universe on that thing. Now if I only had an extra $4k....
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Re: Screen resolution? |
Sat, 29 March 2003 00:55 |
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BlueTurbit | | Lt. Commander
RIP BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 | Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002 Location: Heart of Texas | |
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yucaf wrote on Fri, 28 March 2003 16:45 |
Is a HDTV good enough for use with computers? I know it's better than the normal TV thing, but is it THAT better? What is the definition of thoses beasties?
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HDTV is more than better than normal TV, it is MUCH better. It is much better than DVD when at 1080 mode.
High res HDTV 1080 is about 1920x1080. A low res 720p is 1280x720. However most HDTV don't have computer RGB 15 pin connector inputs. They do have svideo and composite video inputs but that's not quite digital quality. I believe many Plasma HDTV have these 15 pin inputs also.
BlueTurbit Country/RockReport message to a moderator
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Re: Screen resolution? |
Sat, 29 March 2003 10:26 |
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Yep, thats why you get a special board for your computer, although I have seen, I think it was a Pioneer Elite, and that came with a computer connector.
Email me as ----jeffimix@----yahoo.com----
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Re: Screen resolution? |
Mon, 31 March 2003 17:56 |
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BlueTurbit | | Lt. Commander
RIP BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 | Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002 Location: Heart of Texas | |
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yucaf wrote on Mon, 31 March 2003 11:04 | I had no idea it was such a high resolution Where I live it's still reserved to very rich people, and I'm not in that category. I haven't cared to go to the only store that sells them.
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They are getting cheaper. As more are made the production costs go down each year. The first television cost as much as a car. The first VCR's were two to three times higher than TV's, about $800 and up. Now some VCR's even hi-fi 4-head go for as little as $59 and up in the USA. PAL systems are slightly higher because of higher resolution and also higher cost to make the higher quality circuits. PAL = Pay A Lot Also SECAM, the French versions, are in that category. SECAM means System Essentially Contrary to American Method. The French like to do that. That is their chief purpose in life.
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However, there is a difference between the pure resolution (XXX x YYY) and how you see small letters on a TV screen, without blurring etc. TVs are not made to this use primarily so maybe they do not look so nice. Essentially, the higher resolution is intended to be able to make bigger screens that will sell more expensive... My point is: does anybody have seen a small letters computer text on a HDTV screen. Is it very good?
I would expect that the answer is yes, but I like to check things...
YucaF
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Yes
The higher resolution is not intended just to make bigger but to make better. Projection TV's are already bigger using analog signals, but not better.
Resolution has to do with the number of lines and pixels per screen that the unit is capable of displaying. Standard TV for example, has a resolution of about 720x486 (slightly higher in PAL systems). That's 486 lines with 720 pixels per line. Comparable to a VGA 640x480 signal.
HDTV = High DefinitionTV = higher quality/resolution not bigger fuzzier letters. Fuzzier letters or objects are more related to analog (standard) TV's.
You are perhaps thinking of projection TV which is analog with a bigger screen. A PTV is an analog system
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Re: Screen resolution? |
Tue, 01 April 2003 20:20 |
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Sorry to nitpick, but I don't want people getting the wrong info.
BlueTurbit wrote on Tue, 01 April 2003 08:56 |
A PTV is an analog system that uses 3 CRT's (red, green, blue) that are small and use a high quality mirror and magnifier/focus lenses on each CRT to project the image onto the inside of a fresnel type screen.
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No. The classification of TV's as analog and digital depends on whether they can receive digital broadcast signals -- It is about what receiver they use, not what projection technology. There is nothing about a PTV that makes it analog. I have worked at a Philips Reaserch laboratory in the USA that has a lot to do with digital television and I have seen a digital PTV in action. I would like to tell you more about this TV (it is simply amazing) but I am under a non-disclosure agreement so I can't.
BlueTurbit wrote on Tue, 01 April 2003 08:56 |
The fuzziness is due to the enlargement of inferior quality signal by comparison to digital signal.
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The fuzziness of a traditional PTV is due to the fact that the image is constructed before being passed through a series of lenses and mirrors. Imperfections in the the lenses and mirrors cause the signal to spread and become fuzzy.
BlueTurbit wrote on Tue, 01 April 2003 08:56 |
A DVD signal looks much sharper and clearer than a broadcast signal on a larger PTV, for example. Yet DVD still has only 480 resolution.
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The DVD signal looks sharper because the analog signal being fed into the TV is sharper than the analog broadcast signal. This is because it has not had to travel through the airwaves.
Remember, all digital signals must be turned into analog signals before they are displayed. The advantage of a digital TV is that the signal is converted later in the stream.
BlueTurbit wrote on Tue, 01 April 2003 08:56 |
The HDTV has 720 or 1080 resolution. That's 1080 lines with 1920 pixels per line. The quality of such a digital signal is very high.
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'The quality of the digital signal'? You can't actually transmit zeros and ones, you a
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Re: Screen resolution? |
Wed, 02 April 2003 02:12 |
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BlueTurbit | | Lt. Commander
RIP BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 | Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002 Location: Heart of Texas | |
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Peptis wrote on Tue, 01 April 2003 19:20 | Sorry to nitpick, but I don't want people getting the wrong info.
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Wrong info? Not really. I just tried to simplify it rather than use terms that a person who isn't a technician can understand better.
BlueTurbit wrote on Tue, 01 April 2003 08:56 |
A PTV is an analog system that uses 3 CRT's (red, green, blue) that are small and use a high quality mirror and magnifier/focus lenses on each CRT to project the image onto the inside of a fresnel type screen.
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Peptis wrote on Tue, 01 April 2003 19:20 |
No. The classification of TV's as analog and digital depends on whether they can receive digital broadcast signals -- It is about what receiver they use, not what projection technology. There is nothing about a PTV that makes it analog. I have worked at a Philips Reaserch laboratory in the USA that has a lot to do with digital television and I have seen a digital PTV in action. I would like to tell you more about this TV (it is simply amazing) but I am under a non-disclosure agreement so I can't.
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Oops! My boo. I should have said "standard" PTV. After all some HDTV are PTV also, but I am used to referring them to HDPTV's rather than PTV's. Rather than teach PTV theory I was trying to convey in more layman terms what causes fuzzy letters on a "standard" PTV. Which is primarily due to the often poorer reception analog signal that finally arrives at the CRT's and is blown up to larger size which also shows larger flaws. A scratch looks much worse under a magnifier than viewed with the naked eye. Remember I was comparing standard TV signal with HDTV not just analog vs digital here. But even a non HD digital signal will look better than an analog through the air signal at the CRT or picture screen end of path. As a DVD is a good example. A DVD has a higher quality picture than svideo and svideo is higher than composite and composite is higher than RF from an antenna or cable. These are all signals of different quality that do not pass through the air from one co
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[Updated on: Wed, 02 April 2003 02:25]
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Re: Screen resolution? |
Wed, 02 April 2003 12:07 |
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BlueTurbit | | Lt. Commander
RIP BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 | Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002 Location: Heart of Texas | |
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Peptis wrote on Wed, 02 April 2003 08:50 | Thanks for your reply. You did clear up a lot of what you were saying, and I do agree with your clarifications.
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Thanks to you also for pointing out the fog. I did type in haste and didn't review the post I made very well. If I were to type it over I would make some changes. There are many engineers and such that have a better understanding of electronics than I do. As may be your case. I just rely on a lifetime of experience and theory/servicing classes with respect to consumer products from the servicing end. I know engineers that have told us they are amazed at what technicians are able to do on their hands and knees in the homes with respect to repairing these complicated systems. Whereas as a technician I also have been very impressed by many engineers and advanced technicians that I have spoken to on the telephone in the process of solving difficult problems via tech support systems.
Quote: | The purpose of my original post was that people don't get the wrong impression. Put it this way, if I got the wrong impression from your post then other people with less technical experience in the area could too.
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I'll buy that. I was trying to make it easier for lay persons to understand resolution on TV's in comparison to computer monitors and in the process of simplification made some unclear statements.
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I would also like to point out that I wasn't advertising Philips products as being any better than any other brand. In fact, I should have never even mentioned the name of the company. I don't even own a Philips set
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And I didn't mean to say Philips are inferior, nor is any other major brand. I don't own a PTV or HDTV either, nor a Mitsubishi. And most brands are good with respect to overall performance, including Philips. I have repaired the cheapest and the most expensive models. Just like cars, some sets never break down and some do. It doesn't matter much how much they cost or what brand they are. Although some models and brands appear to have more repeat defects than others and require more service calls.
For example, a few years ago many RCA TV's had tuner problems. After the warranty ran out there were many tuner failures in sets that required a technician to remove the shields on the PCBoards in the tuner area and repair many solder connections. The symptoms caused many weird problems, including intermittent snowy pictures, decrease of vertical height, and even shutdown in some cases requiring replacement of the EPROM ICs also. A lot of people paid for a lot of tuner repairs in those years. Any experienced technician will tell you he made a lot of money fixing those tuners. Unknown to many, was the fact that in many cases RCA actually reimbursed those who requested it for the repair at an average repair cost. This did not make all RCA TV's junk, in fact I think just a couple of years ago RCA had more HDTVs, something like 17 models, on the market than anyone else.
In fact, if you buy and expensive PTV or HDTV system, you might want to consider purchase of extended warranties. They don't all break down, but the ones that do can be very expensive to repair. It's like insurance. You don't feel the benefit until you need it. Then you are glad you have it. Most product failures increase due to aging, a lot of which is caused by heated components. or power components, as these seem to break down the most often. So most repairs involve products that have aged beyond the normal warranty period. That is when the repairs reach your pocket book. Here is the dilemma. If you buy extra insurance you have a cushion, but the cushion isn't necessarily cheap either. After all the company selling the cushion is in the business of making a good profit. If you have a PTV or HDTV that costs several thousand dollars and it fails in 3 years can you afford to pay several hundred dollars or more to get it repaired, or would you rather pay a couple hundred or so extra each year to have insurance. Most of them won't fail, but the ones that do can be very expensive to repair out of pocket. Which one of these do you own, the one that last forever or the one that breaks down two or more times a year?
But based on my experience in the service field I would choose certain brands above others. When you see all the defects and the ease or difficulty in which the repairs are completed you see products in a different light than as a consumer standing in front of TVs in a store and looking at the picture. (NAP) Philips sells lots of TV's in all formats. And I have serviced many of them also. I don't know the percentages of failures per brand, just the percentages of repairs. And I have serviced lots more NAP TV's in comparison to Mitsubishi, for example.
I thought it was because more people bought them, but in one PTV class (about 4 years ago) we were told that Mitsubishi is the largest manufacturer of PTV's. So there are lots of them around. At that time I was working for a major retailer that sells most brands and also claims to be the largest single service company in the USA. That would be Sears, which has a fleet of about 10,000 or so home service trucks some of which are in the consumer electronics division as I was. I serviced an area that required me to cover distances of a couple hundred miles on some days. So during that period I experienced a lot of brands and defects and got to compare lots of models both in picture quality and service quality. I also attended several PTV service/theory classes mostly by reps from Hitachi and Mitsubishi, and also other brands. Also a few HDTV models. We studied all the different methods of signal processing(something like 18)that SDTV and HDTV can use. In the service business you have to be familiar with all systems in order to be able to service them. Just connecting them for customers and explaining to them how to use the features can be a challenge in itself.
Another thing many people may not know: In the USA the government has set a deadline of late 2006 for all stations to convert equipment from analog to digital. After that time, as scheduled by govt regulation, all analog TVs left in operation will require a set top box that can receive digital signals or something equivalent like a cable converter or satellite receiver. I believe 2004 or something like that is the year when all TVs produced for the USA are required to have digital tuners.
So why don't I shut up already.
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