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Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module
Re: Colonization Module Check Sat, 17 September 2011 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BeeKeeper is currently offline BeeKeeper

 
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It works for me but if you use the search function for "colonisation module" you should find the first entry is the one to follow for an explanation.

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Re: Colonization Module Check Sat, 17 September 2011 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlueTurbit

 
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neilhoward wrote on Thu, 15 September 2011 13:20

I have recommended that the Colonization Module Check be added to The list of known bugs: player exploitable section.

Update: It is now included in the list.

But is listed under a different name:
Quote:

Colonize without Colonizer
if I make a copy of a colonizer design (Santa Maria, Spore Cloud, Pinta , Privateer usw.) without Colonization module, can the copy still colonize a planet without having a colonizer module on board.

[Updated on: Thu, 15 September 2011 13:33] by Moderator




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Re: Colonization Module Check Tue, 20 September 2011 11:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ccmaster is currently offline ccmaster

 
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Hi ,

I have add it to the bugs. As it is a bug of the stars engine you should not kolonize without a colonizer Razz



ccmaster

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Re: Colonization Module Check Tue, 20 September 2011 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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ccmaster wrote on Wed, 21 September 2011 01:21

Hi ,

I have add it to the bugs. As it is a bug of the stars engine you should not kolonize without a colonizer Razz



ccmaster


May I suggest the description be changed to the following?

Quote:

If you use "Copy Selected Design" on a ship with a colonisation module (e.g. Santa Maria, Pinta, Spore Cloud, or user-created Privateer), then remove the colonisation module and leave the slot that contained it empty, the ship can still colonise planets despite not having a colonisation module.


It explains more fully and doesn't sound like you're asking a question. Smile


[Updated on: Tue, 20 September 2011 18:28]

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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 21 September 2011 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
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The check fails when editing ship designs as well as copying them.

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Re: Colonization Module Check Wed, 21 September 2011 18:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ccmaster is currently offline ccmaster

 
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Hi ,


fine with the other text my English is not so good Sad
Changed it.


ccmaster

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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Wed, 21 September 2011 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ccmaster is currently offline ccmaster

 
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neilhoward wrote on Wed, 21 September 2011 21:06

The check fails when editing ship designs as well as copying them.


Take a normal game copy your Santa Maria and remove the kolonizer modul. You still can kolonize.


ccmaster

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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Mon, 16 January 2012 00:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marduk is currently offline Marduk

 
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I wonder - a couple of times I experimented with using specialized ship designs (I had plenty of available design slots) with carefully calculated attractiveness, mass, battle speeds and orders to force opponents ships to move in a particular way. Based on what I know of the battle engine it should have worked, but didn't. What bothered me the most about that was that the results were consistent and repeatable, and matched what I would have expected if the attractiveness calculations were wrong for most of the designs.

I have often based designs around the attractiveness calculations in order to insure my ships were targetted in a specific order. Many times I've had battle results that made no sense, assuming the formulas for attractiveness were correct.

Perhaps there is a copy-related bug in that code as well? I think in future I will avoid copying designs no matter how much more convenient it may be.

Edit: By the way, there is a discrepancy in benefits from the colonizer bug - a race that colonizes more worlds (better hab or plans to use reds extensively) benefits more than a race that won't colonize much. This somewhat penalizes HP races, for example, as compared to -f and HG races.


[Updated on: Mon, 16 January 2012 00:58]




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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Fri, 09 March 2012 07:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
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In Stone Age Slog, the rules are

Quote:

Standard cheats/bugs: chaff, split-fleet dodge, repair after gating allowed, everything else forbidden.


And then I find this ship in a battle.

[img]http://2118978636933922153-a-blocks123software-com-s-sites.g ooglegroups.com/a/blocks123software.com/blocks123software/Co lony.PNG?attachauth=ANoY7cqs3o6Fx5KAY-pXEAXayqNQWv6aOJDfraeq JaRI0j7XKqLl8M7lqDZ3DKAebvvAoewBcFy-5lz-HaDow0VD7_ZP63f12Dl2 uZQIOGGl0nvvRis9AYzFhYU7JVzzmB-6aleenjHeYomaFxRaaqtXfXyjpwd4 a3gyg7DfJNBMJ4DyhrL-zscwWVAAd1-voVZmBtz1ag3F1zWfQGdimSLzVb8G rkpOpg%3D%3D&attredirects=0[/img]

I then when thru the "Enemy Hulls" of my allies and found that

Cape Otter Colony Ship at 58KT
Cape Otter Colony Ship at 29kT

So I send a few e-mails off to the playing host and after two turns have yet to hear anything back.

So what valid use could there be for these ships?



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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Fri, 09 March 2012 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eagle of Fire

 
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I don't know. Several players mentioned those to me already.

What I do know is that it is clearly not the place to discuss this. Do a mass email... Rolling Eyes



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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Fri, 09 March 2012 19:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sprocket is currently offline sprocket

 
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That is my ship, I had 2 of this Santa Maria taking turns transporting 2kt pop from my HW to Down and Out for pop drop tech trading, I have been doing this in the presence of 6+ other races for over 20 turns at my HW, it was a cheap ship with lots of fuel to transport tiny amounts of pop, I did not know about this bug or that this ship model was a cheat, this ship was used for transport in plain sight of many players, had I known it was considered a cheat ship I would not have used it, and if I intended to cheat then I am pretty stupid to do it in the midst of so many players. I apologize for causing a stir. Embarassed


Dieter of sprockets

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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Fri, 09 March 2012 21:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
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You may want to go back and read my post above,

I send off a message to the host asking that this be looked into, as I don't have enough information to decide what the ships are being used for.

After waiting for two turns to Gen, I have not received a reply from the host.

Having a ship designed like that is not a problem, using a ship to colonize a planet without a Colony Pod is.

Little Eddie

Edit: I also talked to Nmid, as he checked the races and set up the game, but Mark is hosting and he has to make the decisions. ie, ask someone to look at it.


[Updated on: Fri, 09 March 2012 21:15]

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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Fri, 09 March 2012 23:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sprocket is currently offline sprocket

 
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Okay, I read your post, you saw this ship in battle, MY ship, except that you are playing Carrion in Stone age. Your original posting said:

LittleEddie wrote on Fri, 09 March 2012 07:20

In Stone Age Slog, the rules are

Quote:

Standard cheats/bugs: chaff, split-fleet dodge, repair after gating allowed, everything else forbidden.


And then I find this ship in a battle.

[img][url=[url=http://2118978636933922153-a-blocks123software-com-s-sites.g ooglegroups.com/a/blocks123software.com/blocks123software/Co lony.PNG?attachauth=ANoY7cqs3o6Fx5KAY-pXEAXayqNQWv6aOJDfraeq JaRI0j7XKqLl8M7lqDZ3DKAebvvAoewBcFy-5lz-HaDow0VD7_ZP63f12Dl2 uZQIOGGl0nvvRis9AYzFhYU7JVzzmB-6aleenjHeYomaFxRaaqtXfXyjpwd4 a3gyg7DfJNBMJ4DyhrL-zscwWVAAd1-voVZmBtz1ag3F1zWfQGdimSLzVb8G rkpOpg%3D%3D&attredirects=0]http://2118978636933922153-a-blocks123software-com-s-sites.g ooglegroups.com/a/blocks123software.com/blocks123software/Co lony.PNG?attachauth=ANoY7cqs3o6Fx5KAY-pXEAXayqNQWv6aOJDfraeq JaRI0j7XKqLl8M7lqDZ3DKAebvvAoewBcFy-5lz-HaDow0VD7_ZP63f12Dl2 uZQIOGGl0nvvRis9AYzFhYU7JVzzmB-6aleenjHeYomaFxRaaqtXfXyjpwd4 a3gyg7DfJNBMJ4DyhrL-zscwWVAAd1-voVZmBtz1ag3F1zWfQGdimSLzVb8G rkpOpg%3D%3D&attredirects=0[/url]][url]http://2118978636933922153-a-blocks123software-com-s-sites.g[/url] ooglegroups.com/a/blocks123software.com/blocks123software/Co lony.PNG?attachauth=ANoY7cqs3o6Fx5KAY-pXEAXayqNQWv6aOJDfraeq JaRI0j7XKqLl8M7lqDZ3DKAebvvAoewBcFy-5lz-HaDow0VD7_ZP63f12Dl2 uZQIOGGl0nvvRis9AYzFhYU7JVzzmB-6aleenjHeYomaFxRaaqtXfXyjpwd4 a3gyg7DfJNBMJ4DyhrL-zscwWVAAd1-voVZmBtz1ag3F1zWfQGdimSLzVb8G rkpOpg%3D%3D&attredirects=0[/url][/img]




Since this scan was obtained in battle with Enlightened, he is the only one I have fought and my ships have never been in battle with yours, in fact we are on opposite sides of universe, you have just told all of us that you are playing both Enlightened and Carrion, is this correct?

Edit: Eddie, it should be known that 5 players can testify to the facts of the battles since they were present. Since you stated you observed the battle in your turn you know this to be true.


[Updated on: Fri, 09 March 2012 23:48]




Dieter of sprockets

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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sat, 10 March 2012 06:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
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I saw the battle, I didn't say I was there.

Ed

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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sat, 10 March 2012 07:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
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Jools and LittleEddie are two different people to my knowledge.

I have played with/against them in Knife Fight 1, where Jools played the crocodiles and Eddie played the Peacenics.
Eddie was my nominal ally in the game.
They did not work together while I was still alive in the game.

I think LittleEddie let slip that he and Jools are sharing intel quite closely in this game though Wink
Wonder how that will affect the political relations of all the parties involved.

ps - LittleEddie did contact me, but I suggested that he talk to playing host Mogs (played with him in Reanimation).
I offered to check the past turns, but only if the host wanted a neutral 3rd party to check.

Edit - It's pretty simple to check if the colonisers have been used for colonnisation or not. Simply check how many were built and how many are still around.
Even if some died in battle, it can't be a lot of them... and everyone has past files in their mail boxes, so that can be verified.

Regards,
Nmid.


[Updated on: Sat, 10 March 2012 07:31]




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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sat, 10 March 2012 07:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sprocket is currently offline sprocket

 
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Very glad to hear that.

Edit: Wow, let me process this, sharing turns and alliance from opposite sides of the galaxy, I wish I did not know this, the game just died politically in my mind, or at least had a heart attack. Thanks for clearing this up Nmid although I feel like the doctor just informed me I have cancer. Rolling Eyes


[Updated on: Sat, 10 March 2012 08:52]




Dieter of sprockets

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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sat, 10 March 2012 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
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Well, I'm making as assumption that jools and Eddie are sharing files, because you pointed out "Enlightened and Carrion". Sherlock

To play the devil's advocate, are you sure no one else could have shared files, from the list of 5 people in the battle ? Lurking



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sun, 11 March 2012 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Greenstink is currently offline Greenstink

 
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sprocket wrote on Fri, 09 March 2012 17:04

That is my ship, I had 2 of this Santa Maria taking turns transporting 2kt pop from my HW to Down and Out for pop drop tech trading, I have been doing this in the presence of 6+ other races for over 20 turns at my HW, it was a cheap ship with lots of fuel to transport tiny amounts of pop, I did not know about this bug or that this ship model was a cheat, this ship was used for transport in plain sight of many players, had I known it was considered a cheat ship I would not have used it, and if I intended to cheat then I am pretty stupid to do it in the midst of so many players. I apologize for causing a stir. Embarassed


Not so sure i understand? Down and Out is hundreds of lightyears away from your colonies and not being a trading spot for tech since its one of my breeder colonies.



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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Fri, 16 March 2012 09:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sprocket is currently offline sprocket

 
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I misspoke, the popdrop planet was hoof and mouth.


Dieter of sprockets

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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sat, 09 May 2020 18:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ricks03 is currently offline ricks03

 
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It's not necessary to copy the design.

Create a design with a colonizer, which can be any hull which will accept that part. Edit the design and remove the colonizer part (leaving the slot empty). The ship can then colonize.

Copying just copies this state.



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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sat, 09 May 2020 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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ricks03 wrote on Sun, 10 May 2020 08:52
It's not necessary to copy the design.

Create a design with a colonizer, which can be any hull which will accept that part. Edit the design and remove the colonizer part (leaving the slot empty). The ship can then colonize.

Copying just copies this state.

Yes, the key thing is "zero of Colonization Module".

Note that it's trivial for a host to check whether a given empty-mech-slot design that's been built is a coloniser or not; a non-coloniser will give a warning about "no ships with colonisation modules" when you give it colonise orders, whereas a coloniser (including a "zero of Colonization Module" bug coloniser) will not.

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Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sat, 09 May 2020 22:16 Go to previous message
ricks03 is currently offline ricks03

 
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I just wanted to add it's even easier to exploit than this thread implies.

magic9mushroom wrote on Sat, 09 May 2020 21:53
Note that it's trivial for a host to check whether a given empty-mech-slot design that's been built is a coloniser or not; a non-coloniser will give a warning about "no ships with colonisation modules" when you give it colonise orders, whereas a coloniser (including a "zero of Colonization Module" bug coloniser) will not.
Meh, why bother with that, when the totalhost fix code run against the HST, X, or M file can detect and/or fix it Smile




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