Home World Forum
Stars! AutoHost web forums

Jump to Stars! AutoHost


 
 
Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module
Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sun, 14 August 2011 08:24 Go to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1197
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!

Strange thing: if I make a copy of the starting colonizer design (Santa Maria, Spore Cloud, Pinta) without Colonization module, can the copy still colonize a planet. However the slot where the Colonization module was, must remain empty. This also works for a copy of any ship design that had a Colonization module.

I've noticed that behaviour while running some testbeds, among them also a HE race. What I've noticed when sending a MiniCol ship with Col module and a MiniCol ship without it (just empty slot, serving as a cheap fuel booster for 2 W-9 trips), both ships disappeared after arrival, despite I've split the fleet. When I started investigating what happened I noticed BOTH ships had colonized the planet.

Funny bug. I've also checked empty remote miner, but it can't mine. Looks like this is connected with some flag on a ship design, that isn't cleared when Colonization module is removed.

What are consequences of this bug? Cheaper colonizer ship with less mass, that results in longer range. In early game, where every bit of resources counts, it could give quite an advantage.

BR, Iztok


[Updated on: Sun, 14 August 2011 08:44]

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sun, 14 August 2011 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BeeKeeper is currently offline BeeKeeper

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 214
Registered: December 2007
Location: Devon, UK, GMT
Amazing - I have just tested this and it works. When you set orders to colonise you also don't get any warning that the fleet does not have a colonisation module - but colonise it does.


Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sun, 14 August 2011 11:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
Ensign
Stars! V.I.P


Messages: 325
Registered: July 2004
Location: Russia, St.Petersburg

Confirmed.

Internally Stars! have a record for each slot of the design, even if this slot is empty record still there (normally it will contains only zeros). Each record consist of an item type and number of items in the slot. So in this case there is a record saying "mech slot contains zero of colonisation modules", instead of saying "mech slot contains zero of nothing". And it seems that Stars! doesn't check the number of colonisation modules, which is zero, and threat this design as a real coloniser, at least Stars! client allows me to give a colonise order to this ship without any warning.



"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For Love

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sun, 14 August 2011 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlueTurbit

 
Lt. Commander

RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011

Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas
So now that it has been publicized, this should be added to bug abuse/cheat list to punish violations. Right?


BlueTurbit Country/Rock

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sun, 14 August 2011 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Void is currently offline Void

 
Ensign

Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011
Location: California, GMT -7
BlueTurbit wrote on Sun, 14 August 2011 09:04

So now that it has been publicized, this should be added to bug abuse/cheat list to punish violations. Right?

I would say so, yes.

Amazing after so many years, there are still the occasional things to be found in this game!

Cheers,
Void

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sun, 14 August 2011 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 517
Registered: February 2011
Location: Delaware
It even works with the Privateer

I made a Privateer with Colonization Module, I did make one and then copied it and deleted the Colonization Module, Changing nothing else.

And it still colonized a planet,

Kool, saves 9K/8K/8K/8R and the Fuel needed to move 32kTs


Edit: I think using it would be cheating since your colonizing without having the equipment to do so, So I think it should be added to the List of Prohibited Cheats.


[Updated on: Sun, 14 August 2011 15:47]

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sun, 14 August 2011 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlueTurbit

 
Lt. Commander

RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011

Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas
I was SS once and stole pop when it first was discovered.
Kool, I thought.
The next turn I got "cease and desist" order and word spread like wild fire to ban this. And later patch fixed the bug. Laughing


[Updated on: Sun, 14 August 2011 16:18]




BlueTurbit Country/Rock

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sun, 14 August 2011 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008
Does it work for AR? (I'd assume so, but still...)

If so, 3i AR just got a lot more viable. Laughing

Also, yeah, should be added to cheats list (dunno how well it can be policed, though).

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Sun, 14 August 2011 21:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eagle of Fire

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5
Viable as in cheating?

The way I see it, you add more functionality to ships by reducing the cost.

Does it work for a DD? A DD do have an any slot. If so you could field a single design early on and use it both to fight and colonize. That's the perfect escort... Only a little costly.



STARS! Wiki
STARS! Wiki Français
I am on a hot streak... Literally.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Mon, 15 August 2011 05:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taka Tuka

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 102
Registered: March 2004
Location: Germany
magic9mushroom wrote on Sun, 14 August 2011 20:40

Does it work for AR? (I'd assume so, but still...)

If so, 3i AR just got a lot more viable. Laughing

Also, yeah, should be added to cheats list (dunno how well it can be policed, though).


That's the point: Who wants to be a third party in the future if the checking of this feature is needed? Shocked

Because of this I would call it a known bug/exploit what can be used like chaff, split-fleet dodge and repair after gating loophole in most games Smile


Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Mon, 15 August 2011 05:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 568
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Has anyone checked whether it still works after the original design (carrying the colonizer module) has been deleted ? That seems to me to be an important point with regard to this cheat/exploit.

I would say it should be considered a cheat and prohibited in all games, and it isn't that difficult to check for the host or 3rd party checker, you just have to look at the current turn and last turn, and that is needed for checking for any other cheat, too.



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Mon, 15 August 2011 06:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 517
Registered: February 2011
Location: Delaware
Quote:

Has anyone checked whether it still works after the original design (carrying the colonizer module) has been deleted ? That seems to me to be an important point with regard to this cheat/exploit.


Yes, It still worked two years after I deleted the original.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Mon, 15 August 2011 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
Taka Tuka wrote on Mon, 15 August 2011 11:03

Who wants to be a third party in the future if the checking of this feature is needed? Shocked

Hopefully there'll be a working x- and m-files checker/sanitizer before long that also includes this new bug. Whip


Quote:

Because of this I would call it a known bug/exploit what can be used like chaff, split-fleet dodge and repair after gating loophole in most games Smile

Known, yes. Allowed? I sincerely hope not. Chaff is NOT a bug. Split-fleet dodge is extremely hard to police or fix, and the "repair after gating" loophole can hide under a lot of perfectly legitimate reasons for merging fleets on arrival. This new thing doesn't fall into any of these categories. WTH



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Mon, 15 August 2011 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
XyliGUN wrote on Sun, 14 August 2011 17:47

in this case there is a record saying "mech slot contains zero of colonisation modules", instead of saying "mech slot contains zero of nothing". And it seems that Stars! doesn't check the number of colonisation modules,

Which begs the question of how many other things can be copied/deleted and still get the same (buggy) treatment from Stars! Shocked



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Mon, 15 August 2011 15:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlueTurbit

 
Lt. Commander

RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011

Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas
m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 15 August 2011 09:28


Which begs the question of how many other things can be copied/deleted and still get the same (buggy) treatment from Stars! Shocked

I tried this technique on a BB. And I have to admit, it's the best Baby Buggy I ever owned in my life. Silly hair



BlueTurbit Country/Rock

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Mon, 15 August 2011 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

m.a@stars wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 02:28

XyliGUN wrote on Sun, 14 August 2011 17:47

in this case there is a record saying "mech slot contains zero of colonisation modules", instead of saying "mech slot contains zero of nothing". And it seems that Stars! doesn't check the number of colonisation modules,

Which begs the question of how many other things can be copied/deleted and still get the same (buggy) treatment from Stars! Shocked

This.

Cheap Armageddon Nubians?

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Tue, 16 August 2011 02:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goober is currently offline goober

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 175
Registered: December 2003
Location: +10
craebild wrote on Mon, 15 August 2011 19:27

I would say it should be considered a cheat and prohibited in all games, and it isn't that difficult to check for the host or 3rd party checker, you just have to look at the current turn and last turn, and that is needed for checking for any other cheat, too.


I don't disagree.

OTOH if everyone is benefitting from it, and everyone can it seems, then it can be seen as a newly discovered feature of the game that gives it a bit more flexibility and frees up a slot (think of it as taking the time to train your LF crews, for instance, how to colonise before sending it them out!) It certainly appears to make AR's look more viable generally if it works for pintas.

If it is disallowed, it is quite easy to fall foul of it accidentally. When playing HE for instance I usually design colonisers first and then copy it for my fuel tanks. It seems my fuel tanks can now colonise too! As long as they only do so in the company of a coloniser, I don't see a problem ... I've just fallen foul of the bug and lost myself a fuel tank (just as would have happened if I hadn't separated them). I doubt anyone would notice or care - but technically it would be a serious breach of the rules. I think players/hosts are sensible enough to know it isn't really a breach ... but some folks out there, myself included at times, can be very fussy about such details.



Goober.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Tue, 16 August 2011 02:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlueTurbit

 
Lt. Commander

RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011

Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas
Quote:

but technically it would be a serious breach of the rules.

If it's an illegal copy of a legal ship, it's a son of a breach. Silly hair



BlueTurbit Country/Rock

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Tue, 16 August 2011 03:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wasp

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 16
Registered: January 2008
Location: Finland
[email

m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Mon, 15 August 2011 17:28]
Which begs the question of how many other things can be copied/deleted and still get the same (buggy) treatment from Stars! Shocked


Trying to fake energy dampener and jump gate this way didn't work. A design with weapons deleted didn't count as Armed in battle tactics. Looks like the test for component count > 0 is missing in just this one case.


[Updated on: Tue, 16 August 2011 03:27]




Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Tue, 16 August 2011 07:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
goober wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 08:13

if everyone is benefitting from it, and everyone can it seems, then it can be seen as a newly discovered feature of the game that gives it a bit more flexibility and frees up a slot (think of it as taking the time to train your LF crews, for instance, how to colonise before sending it them out!) It certainly appears to make AR's look more viable generally if it works for pintas.

If many people still find it hard to see chaff as a feature of the game (and it is) this is even harder. Confused Yeah, everybody could do it, same as they could do Cheap Starbases or Minerals-to-Bombers, but most don't. And it only takes one doing it as it should be done to make it unfair for anyone else to do it "the new way". Whip

Admittedly, there could be games that explicitly allowed it, same as there's "no chaff" and "no diplo" games.


Quote:

it is quite easy to fall foul of it accidentally. When playing HE for instance I usually design colonisers first and then copy it for my fuel tanks.

If it was so easy, HEs would have discovered it decades ago. Twisted Evil While it's not uncommon to give every Scout orders to Colonize, it's not so common to give a fuel booster orders to Colonize. I'd even guess it's pretty uncommon to have fuel boosters reaching planets at all. Sherlock


Quote:

It seems my fuel tanks can now colonise too! As long as they only do so in the company of a coloniser, I don't see a problem ... I've just fallen foul of the bug and lost myself a fuel tank

Technically, yes. But as long as it could be shown as a one-time mistake, I guess the punishment wouldn't be too harsh. Puppy dog eyes



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Tue, 16 August 2011 07:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
XyliGUN wrote on Sun, 14 August 2011 17:47

in this case there is a record saying "mech slot contains zero of colonisation modules", instead of saying "mech slot contains zero of nothing". And it seems that Stars! doesn't check the number of colonisation modules, which is zero, and threat this design as a real coloniser,

Looks like someone should comb the Stars! exe itself for the relevant bits of code and either teach it to write "zero of nothing" in these cases, or add "and it's not zero" to the IsAColonizer check. Hit Computer



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

icon14.gif  Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Tue, 16 August 2011 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ForceUser is currently offline ForceUser

 
Lt. Junior Grade
Stars! Nova developer
Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 383
Registered: January 2004
Location: South Africa
Wow nice find Shocked unbelievable that stuff like this iis still found so many ears later. I think THAT ALONE is evidence enough to see that it ain't gonna happen accidentally. Having a race send out JUST colonizers WITHOUT Modules and scout fuel booster (that don't normally reach the planet in question yes) on colonizer missions is an obvious abuse of this bug.

BUT do the minerals suddenly appear as if there was a module on the ship? A coloniser module adds to the mineral value of the ship and that adds surface minerals to the colony. So do the coloniser minerals appear?

Easy enough to check for you guys, see what the surface minerals are with a normal coloniser and without using this bug on the same planet yes?



"There are two types of people in the world. AR players and non-AR players" Nick Fraser

Working on some new stuff: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/stars-nova/index.php?t itle=Graphics
And the Mentor Database www.groep7.co.za/Mentor/ ZOMGWTFBBQ!! it still works lol!
Check out my old site with old pics at www.groep7.co.za/Stars/

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Tue, 16 August 2011 16:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

m.a@stars wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 23:14


Quote:

it is quite easy to fall foul of it accidentally. When playing HE for instance I usually design colonisers first and then copy it for my fuel tanks.

If it was so easy, HEs would have discovered it decades ago. Twisted Evil While it's not uncommon to give every Scout orders to Colonize, it's not so common to give a fuel booster orders to Colonize. I'd even guess it's pretty uncommon to have fuel boosters reaching planets at all. Sherlock

ish...when playing HE I have a habit of parking one at *every* planet..and like scouts, they travel with colonization orders for the speed adjustment trick. The catch is they don't generally have any pop loaded. I've grown to ignore the "you didn't bring any pop message"

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Tue, 16 August 2011 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
gible wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 22:44

I have a habit of parking one at *every* planet..

Isn't that a waste of perfectly good ships? Shocked



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Copies of colonizer ships can colonize without Colonization module Tue, 16 August 2011 18:49 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 17 August 2011 10:19

gible wrote on Tue, 16 August 2011 22:44

I have a habit of parking one at *every* planet..

Isn't that a waste of perfectly good ships? Shocked

Probably.. but they can see planet hopping ships (100% of the time unlike penscans), can do limited planet scanning, can be used to ping stuff and its nice having fuel all over the place. Plus, with W6 scoops they need no support and can reach most places by planet hopping.

Report message to a moderator

Previous Topic: DOS Box Serial shenanigans..
Next Topic: XBorders not saving data?
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Sat Mar 02 04:02:38 EST 2024