| Fuel transfer from ship deleted in same year |
Wed, 13 July 2011 07:33  |
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If u transfer fuel from a ship and then blow it up (using f4 fleet design box), does the xfer still take place when the game gens?
I didn't think so, but then I started thinking about what I've been reading on the forums..
Perhaps the host file doesn't check for "wierd" commands given in the .x file, so even if the .x file shows the fuel is coming from "nowhere", it still might work..
I should test it (well, I already have... I'll just have to wait for the game to gen in 2 days.)
Nmid.
[Updated on: Wed, 13 July 2011 07:41]
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Fuel transfer from ship deleted in same year |
Wed, 13 July 2011 17:58  |
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m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Thu, 14 July 2011 09:43]| nmid wrote on Wed, 13 July 2011 13:33 |
Perhaps the host file doesn't check for "wierd" commands given in the .x file, so even if the .x file shows the fuel is coming from "nowhere", it still might work..
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Far as anyone can tell, "delete design" is just another order for Stars! same as "create design". It's also used when creating some games with pop restrictions, to "space" unwanted pop by loading them into transports which are subsequently deleted. 
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I agree that logically it must be an order in the .x file. Nmid has a point tho, the host reader is known for its lack of validation and the sort of muck up he describes would contribute to figuring out the OOE being difficult at times - and even contradictory.
ATM design deletion/creation isn't even in the OOE.
[Updated on: Wed, 13 July 2011 17:58] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Fuel transfer from ship deleted in same year |
Thu, 14 July 2011 08:39 |
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| BlueTurbit |
 | Lt. Commander
RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 |
Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas | |
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But of course OOE takes place when you gen the turn. But when you are doing your turn you are in edit mode. Pre-OOE mode. Live mode.
In edit mode, many changes you make take place immediately, but results are not officially registered until the turn is generated. Because they are real-time orders, not waypoint orders.
This includes many things:
transferring cargo from and to ships, renaming ships, deleting and creating new designs, jettison cargo, split and merge fleets, etc. Some events have waypoint orders and some only have real-time orders while in edit mode. Deletions being a real-time example, versus scrapping as a waypoint order.
So transferring cargo from one ship to another and deleting the other ship is a logical flow of progress, a real-time order of events. It's taken in order of time executed. The fuel is moved first, then the design is deleted.
The results are shown immediately and are saved when you save the x file. Therefore allowing you to make changes later if you desire. In edit mode you can reload the game and continue your edits at a later time or times. In fact, you can un-delete the ships by deleting the x file and starting fresh.
When the turn is generated these events likely take place in their proper place, just as they would when setting orders to accomplish the same task.
However, some events likely take place first. OOE zero (edit mode), or first on the event 1 list. Like deletions. Deletions are event zero or 1A. Because if you delete a design, you can't expect it to be scrapped as event 1. LOL
This would include things like new designs and renaming things and deletions, etc.
So why is it surprising to find that you can transfer cargo and delete a design? The cargo existed before the design was deleted. So it is logical that the cargo doesn't disappear from the receiving ship when the other ship is later, in time, deleted.
This allows you to see certain results before the gen, while in live/edit mode.
For example: You have a fleet of freighters in space. One of the ships is a colony ship. In the last move, you separate the colony ship from the fleet and give order to colonize on arrival at new planet. The fleet has minerals mixed in. So you manually place the minerals in space, then manually refill the colony ship with pop from the freighter fleet. Now the colony ship has only colonists. Then you go to freighter fleet and lift the minerals that you temporarily stored in space to the freighter ships.
Was there a cargo pod in space? No. But the edit mode gives you the ability to transfer different cargo types between full ships as if there was a crew doing the transfers.
Mission accomplished. Now you can give the colony ship orders to colonize with a full load. And if you aren't sure if the planet is still empty, you can give the freighter fleet orders to drop colonists, just in case it is occupied. And you save a turn having to do it later because the colony ship couldn't colonize an occupied planet.
So yes. In real time you can fill a glass with water and then break the pitcher of water. And surprise? Later, the water is still in the glass even though the pitcher is gone. Did you really expect the water to disappear from the glass too?
BlueTurbit Country/RockReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Fuel transfer from ship deleted in same year |
Thu, 14 July 2011 08:50 |
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 Void |
 | Ensign |
Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011
Location: California, GMT -7 | |
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| BlueTurbit wrote on Thu, 14 July 2011 05:39 |
So why is it surprising to find that you can transfer cargo and delete a design? The cargo existed before the design was deleted. So it is logical that the cargo doesn't disappear from the receiving ship when the other ship is later, in time, deleted.
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It is logical, but the game engine doesn't always do things in a logical manner, so why is it surprising people would want to validate such things? 
Packets, for instance. I'm sure someone can come up with some artifice as to why packets launched the year they hit occur after defenses are built, but those in transit impact before defenses are built; even one that was its max distance away the year before.
So I'm not sure how many are surprised about all this, but it is nice to confirm behavior.
Cheers,
Void
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| Re: Fuel transfer from ship deleted in same year |
Thu, 14 July 2011 18:58 |
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| craebild |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 568
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark | |
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| Ron wrote on Thu, 14 July 2011 21:13 |
Then there's the problem that many manuals are written by people whose primary language is not the one they're writing!
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I have seen examples of that with my work - And that is with CNC machining centres.
The English translation of manuals from east Asian countries tend to be poor English, especially in the case of older manuals, but I have also on one occasion seen a serious error in an English manual from a German manufacturer - The German and English versions gave contradictory information. With my knowledge of machining centres it was obvious to me that the text in the English version was wrong, but following the instructions in the English version could cause damage to the machine, and those machines are expensive machines - Or in the worst case death, several kg steel with sharp edges moving very fast is not something it is healthy to stand in the way of.
Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild
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