Home World Forum
Stars! AutoHost web forums

Jump to Stars! AutoHost


 
 
Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Game setup for HP viability
Re: Game setup for HP viability Mon, 04 July 2011 07:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
magic9mushroom wrote on Sun, 03 July 2011 14:47

Hab. Feds get 99% of planets habitable, initial 1 in 10 only gets to 1 in 2 - and you're getting less than twice their resources and significantly less than twice their minerals per planet.

I didn't even have to test once I noticed that.

And that was with 16% growth, LSP, and weapons normal IIRC. You can't get much more out of it

Weird. I'd need to see the full race details to discover what you might be doing wrong. Sherlock


Quote:

a 1/2500 HP has more trouble with early attacks than an HG would.

Early attacks are usually devastating for all kinds of races. HPs might have more trouble than others due to having less space to trade for time. Dueling



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Game setup for HP viability Mon, 04 July 2011 07:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
Void wrote on Sun, 03 July 2011 19:38

I was hoping to find a balance that would enable HPs to be viable in today's smaller games

Good luck with that. HPs need time. Today's cramped knifefights inside shoeboxes are all about ending before the 50s. Rolling Eyes

The only thing I've seen lately that might ressemble an HP-style race is a resurgence of 1WWs, but these have always been a choice for Tiny and Small shoeboxes. Pirate



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Game setup for HP viability Mon, 04 July 2011 07:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1206
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
Quote:

Demanding 1/1500 pop efficiency and very narrow habs almost kills HGs entirely, would it not?

Umm, not really. They'd still get ~66% more resources from pop vs. the 1/2500 pop of the HP. If you think that's too harsh a demand, adjust it to your liking. But I wouldn't go below 1/1300.

After I checked with Stars! the first "demands", it actually looks like I've over-nerfed the races. There isn't anything remaining that a player could spend RW points on, but factories and mines. So the difference in econ between HG and "HP" is not large, but the HP can spend LOTS of points for mine eff.

I tried some other settings, but it looks like I can't find a really good solution. So as a revised proposal for races I'd demand:

- 1/1300-1500 pop eff or worse,
- no tech cheap, weapons expensive,
- ban CA, no NAS for JoaT.

The universe and game settings would remain the same, I just removed the 50 planets per player, since hab isn't limited anymore:
- no AccBBS,
- no Random events (so no Mistery Trader to help with tech levels and Alien Miner),
- slow tech,
- sparse uni,
- no tech trade. Everyone needs to crunch those expensive techs by himself.

BR, Iztok


[Updated on: Mon, 04 July 2011 07:33]

Report message to a moderator

Re: Game setup for HP viability Mon, 04 July 2011 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Void is currently offline Void

 
Ensign

Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011
Location: California, GMT -7
iztok wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 04:32

Umm, not really. They'd still get ~66% more resources from pop vs. the 1/2500 pop of the HP. If you think that's too harsh a demand, adjust it to your liking. But I wouldn't go below 1/1300.

That's a good way to look at it. Makes sense. Although, even at 1/1300 is this as more of an RG - Regular Growth - as opposed to an HG - Hyper Growth. But that's semantics. Thanks for working through the options to come up with a viable game setup.

Next question: with such a unique game setup, what's the risk of folks building unviable races and skewing the game? For the more typical game setups, most folks have a good sense for what works and what doesn't, so there's a good chance of a competitive game. For these atypical game setups, I have to think some folks, either because they spend more time designing and testbedding or by chance, design a better race for the uni settings, whereas others do not. Does this unbalance the game once it gets going?

Cheers,
Void

Report message to a moderator

Re: Game setup for HP viability Mon, 04 July 2011 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1206
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
Quote:

with such a unique game setup, what's the risk of folks building unviable races and skewing the game?


I had the same concern for the all-AR game I organized. I requested a testbed with over 20k resources at 2450 from each would-be player. But the AR is a VERY special case. Your game isn't so different. It's just a slower game with expensive tech and with a bit nerfed HGs. The main problem would be a player with a -f or an AR. Those two would really have a hard time to compete with resource monsters. But the usuall race-checking third party could weed them out, so IMO you do worry too much. Wink

BR, Iztok


Report message to a moderator

Re: Game setup for HP viability Mon, 04 July 2011 19:29 Go to previous message
Void is currently offline Void

 
Ensign

Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011
Location: California, GMT -7
iztok wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 09:06

But the usuall race-checking third party could weed them out, so IMO you do worry too much. Wink


Ha! That's the project manager in me coming out. Risk mitigation!

Cheers,
Void

Report message to a moderator

Previous Topic: AccBBS, and its effects on various races.
Next Topic: Why bi-immunity is a bad idea.
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Sun Apr 28 18:41:57 EDT 2024