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[Updated on: Thu, 30 June 2011 10:36]

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[Updated on: Thu, 30 June 2011 22:39] by Moderator

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Altruist wrote on Fri, 01 July 2011 20:15

in the latest game I played there were no restrictions at all on PRTs. In a small/normal universe with 8 players, no diplomacy, no allies, tech expensive, this led to: 4 players taking JoaT (and none CA).

... and 4 players NOT taking JoaT.

Also, who won?

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Hi!

Void wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 15:19

...this Jason fella

Not this but the JC.
At his time he was the greatest Stars!'s guru. Even now he's highly respected.

Quote:

their late game ability to strip a planet's minerals in a few turns is extremely powerful.

The longer the game, the stronger a role the minerals play. If there's no AR with its mineral fountain, in most cases the player with the most minerals (== ships) will win. And remote miners will provide minerals, but non-OBRM races will have better remotes that will mine more efficiently (== faster and with less initiall investment).

OTOH there's that "damn" Mistery Trader, that offers the Alien Miner, which completely negates the OBRM disadvantages. If game runs for enough time, you could be quite sure to get it. The main problem is to survive until then.

BR, Iztok

[Updated on: Mon, 04 July 2011 03:59]

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iztok wrote on Sun, 03 July 2011 23:25

Not this but the JC. At his time he was the greatest Stars!'s guru. Even now he's highly respected.

I seem to recall him having some funny ideas about -f races (search forum for Altai).

But yes, much of Stars theory is based on his ideas.

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iztok wrote on Sun, 03 July 2011 06:25

Not this but the JC. At his time he was the greatest Stars!'s guru. Even now he's highly respected.

Mr. Cawley definitely thought deeply about the subject. When you say 'at his time...' do you mean to imply he has been surpassed? If so, by whom? Or are you just saying he's no longer an active member of the Stars! community?

Quote:

OTOH there's that "damn" Mistery Trader, that offers the Alien Miner, which completely negates the OBRM disadvantages. If game runs for enough time, you could be quite sure to get it. The main problem is to survive until then.

Ahem...yes...I've been on the receiving end of the MT's mercurial nature. Which is to say, I've not been on the receiving end of any of the four MTs that passed through our FA7 galaxy.

Quite a pain in the you-know-what, that.

Cheers,
Void

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[Updated on: Sun, 03 July 2011 12:18]

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magic9mushroom wrote on Sun, 03 July 2011 09:17

Well, the issue is that he said you should build factories once established, despite the 25 cost.

Agreed. Even with flying orgies and overpop, it'll take a loonnnggg time to build those factories.

Quote:

There's also the fact that if you're using LBU bombs to raid, there won't be a great deal of factories left.

Very true, although I suspect he had in mind more pop dropping than bombing, for this reason.

I see the Altai as an interesting race design to push the envelope and see what could be done, although not necessarily should be done.

Cheers,
Void

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Hi!

Void wrote on Sun, 03 July 2011 18:01

When you say 'at his time...' do you mean to imply he has been surpassed? If so, by whom? Or are you just saying he's no longer an active member of the Stars! community?

He's no longer an active member. He de-lurked here about two years ago, but went into hiding soon after.

I'd say he has not been surpassed by a single person, but a community as a whole. With all those bright minds working and analyzing, our knowledge was broadened, refined, races and play style sharpened. Ten+ years of progress should have some impact.

BR, Iztok

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Hi!

Void wrote on Sun, 03 July 2011 19:20

I see the Altai as an interesting race design to push the envelope and see what could be done, although not necessarily should be done.

When I was designing my IS quite some time ago, I too considered leaving factories at 10/25/10. IIRC this costed "only" 69 RW points, and would make a great addition to my resources, IF I'd be fighting and pop-bombing a +f race. OTOH if I'd already be winning that war, WHY would I need those factories anyway? Never intended to build them though. And to be completely honest, never intended to overpop my planets. At that time doing that looked to me as a complete waste.

BR, Iztok

[Updated on: Mon, 04 July 2011 04:00]

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iztok wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 09:47

I'd say he has not been surpassed by a single person, but a community as a whole. With all those bright minds working and analyzing, our knowledge was broadened, refined, races and play style sharpened. Ten+ years of progress should have some impact.

If we see far, it's because we stand on the shoulders of giants like JC.

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iztok wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 00:47

I'd say he has not been surpassed by a single person, but a community as a whole. With all those bright minds working and analyzing, our knowledge was broadened, refined, races and play style sharpened. Ten+ years of progress should have some impact.

Now that's a great perspective. There were certainly some prolific writers in the RGCS newsgroup back in the day (which looks like the latter half of the '90s). The archives certainly provide for some interesting reading, both from a Stars and a drama perspective!

Cheers,
Void

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Void wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 09:19

That all sounds reasonable, in theory. How many of you apply this principle in practice? Cheers, Void

I have used the IT version of this race by JC. I actually fought my first duel in the 2008/2009 Dueling Championship not taking OBRM. It was competitive even if I never built any remote miners in that duel. It can work very well if the duel goes pass 2460 turns. I picked OBRM after that first duel.

The point is that no OBRM is a disadvantage but it is not a make or break issue. It is however part of race design whether you optimize for a shorter time frame (-f) versus longer (HP). As IT, you can take advantage of very distant narrow hab planets and use any gates to move those very heavy miners to the planets to be stripped. In a sense, you can have rapid econ dev (IT has around 6000+ res at 2430) with longer term mineral potential to build your war fleets.

I did use this IT race in a "regular" game as well. For awhile, you could use the remote miners to strip planets. However, there were very few such planets to strip by the end of the game - your "allies" have intersettled into those planets

[Updated on: Mon, 04 July 2011 15:30]

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