Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Battleboard question
| Battleboard question |
Wed, 15 June 2011 14:54  |
|
 Void |
 | Ensign |
Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011
Location: California, GMT -7 | |
|
Consider this scenario:
Two players, A and B, are each racing towards Planet X with a colonizer, some medium freighters filled with colonists, and a small fleet of X-Ray DDs.
Player A brings the most firepower (only 2 X-Rays per ship, but more total firepower) and more armor than player B (with fewer DDs, but with 3 X-Rays per ship).
What battle orders must Player A set to ensure they get the planet? That is, Player A's colonizer and freighters survive and Player B's do not?
Cheers,
Void
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Battleboard question |
Wed, 15 June 2011 14:55  |
|
|
|
heh.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| |
| Re: Battleboard question |
Wed, 15 June 2011 17:44 |
|
| slimdrag00n | 
 | |
Messages: 630
Registered: January 2009
Location: new york -5 |  
|
|
| Void wrote on Wed, 15 June 2011 14:54 |
Consider this scenario:
Two players, A and B, are each racing towards Planet X with a colonizer, some medium freighters filled with colonists, and a small fleet of X-Ray DDs.
Player A brings the most firepower (only 2 X-Rays per ship, but more total firepower) and more armor than player B (with fewer DDs, but with 3 X-Rays per ship).
What battle orders must Player A set to ensure they get the planet? That is, Player A's colonizer and freighters survive and Player B's do not?
Cheers,
Void
|
Your ship designs are not important to your question but If your armed ships win and you killed theirs ships as long as your colonizer ship has colonize Way point orders it will be colonized by you sense you destroyed theirs.
If both colonizers survived then it would randomly choose who would colonize the planet.
......
Ranked games: 8-1
Recently won the game Knife Fight.
Looking for a practice duel.
.......Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| | |
| Re: Battleboard question |
Wed, 15 June 2011 21:44 |
|
|
|
| slimdrag00n wrote on Wed, 15 June 2011 17:44 |
If both colonizers survived then it would randomly choose who would colonize the planet.
|
I don't think this is right. If both colonisers survive then I think that there will a land battle & the race with the most pop would take the planet. If pop is equal the planet would remain unoccupied.
If the coloniser is merged with the freighters then you should win unless your opponent does the same & has more total pop. This is also a good idea if your battle sim indicates you could lose the military battle since your slow freighters would probably be destroyed before you can drop the pop on the next turn. What happens in the next turn is also important if you lose the military battle since your opponent can then drop their pop.
I suggest that your primary target should be Freighters & your secondary target should be Any. This should mean that the battle rages but the battle site moves towards your opponent's colonisers/freighters (& away from yours).
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Battleboard question |
Wed, 15 June 2011 21:58 |
|
| m.a@stars |
 | Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
|
| AlexTheGreat wrote on Thu, 16 June 2011 03:44 |
If the coloniser is merged with the freighters then you should win unless your opponent does the same & has more total pop. This is also a good idea if your battle sim indicates you could lose the military battle since your slow freighters would probably be destroyed before you can drop the pop on the next turn. What happens in the next turn is also important if you lose the military battle since your opponent can then drop their pop.
|
Battles happen before WP1 tasks, including Colonization. 
WP0 tasks, including manual Unload, happen before Battles.
So, it doesn't matter if the troop transport(s) are merged with the Colonizer(s). They still need to survive the Battle. And once they survive, they can do whatever they please, including dropping, pillaging and fleeing, before the next chance of battle. 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Battleboard question |
Thu, 16 June 2011 14:17 |
|
| Eagle of Fire | 
 | Lt. Commander |
Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5 | |
|
| Quote: |
Consider this scenario:
Two players, A and B, are each racing towards Planet X with a colonizer, some medium freighters filled with colonists, and a small fleet of X-Ray DDs.
Player A brings the most firepower (only 2 X-Rays per ship, but more total firepower) and more armor than player B (with fewer DDs, but with 3 X-Rays per ship).
What battle orders must Player A set to ensure they get the planet? That is, Player A's colonizer and freighters survive and Player B's do not?
Cheers,
Void
|
Considering this scenario, I would assume this is very early game. Since losing pop stupidly would be pointless, I would change course.
If this is not an option (strategical importance, one of your rare good greens, etc), then I would not colonize this turn and assume that my opponent will. Then send my fleet as normal with "freighter-cargo ship/any" combat order. The goal would be to destroy at least one of their own freighter so I have a pop advantage if I get to the pop drop phase next turn.
The any in secondary assure you that your attack ships will fire at anything nearby while rushing for the enemy freighters, including (and most important) the enemy attack ships. Possibly killing or severely damaging them in the process, after destroying the freighters. They might out of bad luck also target the colonizer ship, but consider this:
Freighters are very slow when loaded but the colonizer ships only have 25kt of cargo space. It should take hell of a long time for freighters to flee but the colonizer will be soon gone and possibly far apart from the freighter group. With this tactic, assuming your enemy don't read this and plan a counter strike ( ), you have a good chance to end up with no attack ships but all your freighters up at the planet on your side versus a 25kt colonized planet with some enemy attack ships in orbit.
Since popdrops occur before combat... You 1) get control of the planet and 2) get a chance at gaining tech if your enemy is better than you in any field. 3) Since you wanted that planet bad anyways, you do have a resupply plan, including a lot of defense ships, isn't? 
Then again of course, if you just made a test battle and realize that your ships are already stronger than the enemy ship... You might not need such an elaborate tactic to win.
Good luck.
STARS! Wiki
STARS! Wiki Français
I am on a hot streak... Literally.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| |
| Re: Battleboard question |
Thu, 16 June 2011 21:06 |
|
|
|
| m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 15 June 2011 21:58 |
| AlexTheGreat wrote on Thu, 16 June 2011 03:44 |
If the coloniser is merged with the freighters then you should win unless your opponent does the same & has more total pop. This is also a good idea if your battle sim indicates you could lose the military battle since your slow freighters would probably be destroyed before you can drop the pop on the next turn. What happens in the next turn is also important if you lose the military battle since your opponent can then drop their pop.
|
Battles happen before WP1 tasks, including Colonization.
WP0 tasks, including manual Unload, happen before Battles.
So, it doesn't matter if the troop transport(s) are merged with the Colonizer(s). They still need to survive the Battle. And once they survive, they can do whatever they please, including dropping, pillaging and fleeing, before the next chance of battle.
|
Ah yes, I was only considering a standard auto drop - as you say a manual drop would work. Still worth considering merging the freighters depending upon pop numbers on the 2 sides since a defender has an advantage against an attacker. It also gives you a few extra minerals (70% of the ship costs) which might be enough to build a decent base.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| | | |
| Re: Battleboard question |
Fri, 17 June 2011 10:44 |
|
| Void |
| Ensign |
Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011
Location: California, GMT -7 | |
|
| magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 15 June 2011 16:16 |
Freighters full of colonists aren't going anywhere fast, so just use the default orders (armed ships/any) and your DDs will eventually kill the freighters.
|
I should clarify what actually occurred, since this actually occurred and I'm (1) trying to understand what happened and (2) figure out how to make sure my superior firepower wins the day next time!
Year
2416
Context
Two players in a duel are racing toward the center planet. Player A (me) had a scout and a pair of 2 X-Ray DDs already in orbit. I see 4 enemy medium freighters en route to arrive in 2416. I have my main fleet due to arrive the next year, 2416, also.
Here are the fleet compositions at the start of 2416:
Player A (me)
==============
(4) DDs (2 X-Ray)
(2) DDs (2 X-Ray)
(1) Scout
(1) Medium Freighter Coloniser
(5) Medium Freighters
Player B (NMid)
================
(2) DDs (3 X-Ray)
(1) DDs (3 X-Ray)
(1) Santa Maria
(4) Medium Freighters
Final Outcome
==============
Player A DDs survived
Player A Med. Fr. Coloniser destroyed
Player A Medium Freighters destroyed
Player B DDs destroyed
Player B Coloniser survived and colonised
Player B Freighters survived
So B ultimately lost his DDs, but colonise at the end of 2416 and dropped the rest of his pop as a WP0 task, thus allowing him to build a Range-0 weapon to kill my DDs the next turn.
Two things stump me.
First, why did my DDs not destroy his. I had Armed/Any battle orders. His 2-ship stack had Armed/Any, his one ship stack had Unarmed/Any. My 2-ship stack went for his DDs. My 4-ship stack move away from his DDs to engage his freighters before changing their mind and staying out of range, then half-way through the battle going after his DDs.
Second, now that I review the battle, why on earth did my Medium Freighter Coloniser rush into his DDs' firing range at the start of the battle?
Dazed and confused...
Cheers,
Void
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Battleboard question |
Fri, 17 June 2011 10:48 |
|
| Void |
| Ensign |
Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011
Location: California, GMT -7 | |
|
| m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 16 June 2011 12:19 |
Speaking of "racing"... why did you wait until you had the armed escorts instead of rushing ahead with just the colonizer(s) and transport(s)? 
|
Fair point. Two responses. 
First, I had superior firepower. Why should I have to delay?
Second, and the more relevant, is I didn't see his approaching DDs. I saw his 4 freighters coming, but not the support craft.
| Quote: |
Also, isn't it possible to cut corners somewhere and reach the target one turn earlier, even if it means leaving some of the slower ships behind? 
|
We were both racing at warp 9, and there was no way to get there faster. Knowing how this turned out, I could have done things differently, but I'd really prefer to understand why the battle evolved as it did and what I need to do differently next time to ensure superior firepower wins the day.
Appreciate the different options, though!
Cheers,
Void
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| | | |
| Re: Battleboard question |
Fri, 17 June 2011 14:41 |
|
| Void |
| Ensign |
Messages: 369
Registered: January 2011
Location: California, GMT -7 | |
|
| m.a@stars wrote on Fri, 17 June 2011 08:24 |
Oh, well. Your *real* question isn't quite the same as your original question...
|
Fair point. Since this is round one of the Championship duel, my opponent and I formed a gentleman's agreement not to share too much about each other so as not to give the winner's future opponents too much intel. So I was trying to be circumspect. After thinking about this, the vast majority of this can be easily discussed without giving anything of substance away.
| Quote: |
What had each of those stacks as "tactic"? "max dmg" doesn't work the same as "max dmg ratio" or "min dmg to self" 
|
I'm pretty sure it was Max Damage Ratio, but I'll double-check when I get home.
| Quote: |
Unarmed ships move semi-randomly in battle, under a general "desire" to flee. That kind of dumb behavior has been reported many times before, but it isn't usually called "rushing towards the enemy" 
|
Oh, it was definitely rushing towards the enemy!
Cheers,
Void
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| | | | | |
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Sun Apr 28 19:50:03 EDT 2024
|
Members
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
