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Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop)
OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Thu, 19 May 2011 14:28 Go to next message
Taka Tuka

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 102
Registered: March 2004
Location: Germany
 Hi all,

I uploaded all pop from my planet to a freighter of mine (OoE: Task 2). Enemy ships, which have been there the year before, unload pop (OoE: Task 3).

I have got the ingame message, that I have been attacked by x troops, but my troops were defeated. The planet is shown as owned by the enemy now. Shocked

How is this possible?

I checked my last turn again, and no pop were left at the planet. My transporter has the withdrawn pop still on board now.

Regards, Taka Tuka

[Updated on: Thu, 19 May 2011 14:29]

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Thu, 19 May 2011 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 568
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
 While the population of a planet is displayed in 100's and can only be uploaded or unloaded in 100's, the planetary population is internally stored as an integer, so there was still some population left, though less than 100 colonists. It was those fewer than 100 colonists who were defeated by the attacking troops.

Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Thu, 19 May 2011 16:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5
craebild wrote on Fri, 20 May 2011 00:03

While the population of a planet is displayed in 100's and can only be uploaded or unloaded in 100's, the planetary population is internally stored as an integer, so there was still some population left, though less than 100 colonists. It was those fewer than 100 colonists who were defeated by the attacking troops.


Is that so?
I thought it was on account of

2. * Waypoint 0 load tasks (if done by hand) *
3. Waypoint 0 unload tasks
4. Waypoint 0 Colonization/Ground Combat resolution (with possible tech gain)
25. * Planets with 0 colonists become uninhabited (lose starbase and defences) *

So your planet was still inhabited.
If the enemy had come in with WP1, it would have been a different matter as that is :
26. Waypoint 1 unload tasks

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Thu, 19 May 2011 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA
nmid wrote on Thu, 19 May 2011 13:01


Is that so?
I thought it was on account of

2. * Waypoint 0 load tasks (if done by hand) *
3. Waypoint 0 unload tasks
4. Waypoint 0 Colonization/Ground Combat resolution (with possible tech gain)
25. * Planets with 0 colonists become uninhabited (lose starbase and defences) *

So your planet was still inhabited.
If the enemy had come in with WP1, it would have been a different matter as that is :
26. Waypoint 1 unload tasks


I believe this to be the explanation. While you did not lose any colonists in combat the Stars program had not set the planet to uninhabited and so told you that your non-existent pop had been defeated. IIRC there is no potential for tech gain from such pseudo-combat.

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Thu, 19 May 2011 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5
vonKreedon wrote on Fri, 20 May 2011 01:45

IIRC there is no potential for tech gain from such pseudo-combat.


I think the chances of getting tech are the same as actual ground combat.

However this being quite a rare event, one might not end up with too many "test cases".

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Thu, 19 May 2011 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA
nmid wrote on Thu, 19 May 2011 13:18

I think the chances of getting tech are the same as actual ground combat.

However this being quite a rare event, one might not end up with too many "test cases".


It's not really a rare event, when doing pop drop tech trading I generally use three planets and almost always get tech.

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Thu, 19 May 2011 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5
vonKreedon wrote on Fri, 20 May 2011 01:57

nmid wrote on Thu, 19 May 2011 13:18

I think the chances of getting tech are the same as actual ground combat.

However this being quite a rare event, one might not end up with too many "test cases".


It's not really a rare event, when doing pop drop tech trading I generally use three planets and almost always get tech.


Quite true. 3 planet sites are quite enough..
Though I had the misfortune of having only 2 planets set up for 2 years.
While I got tech from the pop-drop on account of pop-dropping enemy planets as well... my ally didn't from the 2 "sites".

Anyways on topic, if you have 3 planets with WP0 evac and WP0 drop, then I'm saying that the chances are the same as ground combat.

[Updated on: Thu, 19 May 2011 16:41]



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Thu, 19 May 2011 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eagle of Fire

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5
 It all depends of the amount of trade events taking place as well as the difference in tech levels, as depicted here.

Popdrop have the advantage that if you have multiple tech difference then your chance of gaining something is heightened. The disadvantage is that you cannot be sure of what field you will get, which is what is the real difference with wolf/lamb or scrapping.

So, if you pop drop 3 times in the same year and you only have one level difference total with your trade partner, you have 58%. If you have two fields lacking only one level, you jump to 75%. Two fields behind but one of them is two levels behind, you jump to 82%... Etc.

Edit: typo...

[Updated on: Thu, 19 May 2011 16:53]



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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Thu, 19 May 2011 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

 Ah.. When I was saying "this", I was referring to WP0 evac/WP1 drop cases.
I was pointing out that it is the same as actually engaging in ground combat, when it comes to calculating tech gain.

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Wed, 01 June 2011 09:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slimdrag00n is currently offline slimdrag00n

 
Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 630
Registered: January 2009
Location: new york -5

vonKreedon wrote on Thu, 19 May 2011 16:15

nmid wrote on Thu, 19 May 2011 13:01


Is that so?
I thought it was on account of

2. * Waypoint 0 load tasks (if done by hand) *
3. Waypoint 0 unload tasks
4. Waypoint 0 Colonization/Ground Combat resolution (with possible tech gain)
25. * Planets with 0 colonists become uninhabited (lose starbase and defences) *

So your planet was still inhabited.
If the enemy had come in with WP1, it would have been a different matter as that is :
26. Waypoint 1 unload tasks


I believe this to be the explanation. While you did not lose any colonists in combat the Stars program had not set the planet to uninhabited and so told you that your non-existent pop had been defeated. IIRC there is no potential for tech gain from such pseudo-combat.


This similar thing just happened to me now and I do not understand it.

I had a planet with 200 pop. I saw that it could get pop dropped thus I sent a colony ship to upload all population. The ship got there and it only had 100 pop in it. The other 100 I am sure died from being on a red planet. This turn is where I understand that they could have dropped on me due to an imaginary amount of pop left on the planet.

What I don't get his how another whole year goes by and my colony ship with my 100 pop goes to my other planet and they get to drop on me when I am no longer there.

So are you sure he could not get tech? That is my only concern.

......
Ranked games: 8-1
Recently won the game Knife Fight.
Looking for a practice duel.
.......

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Wed, 01 June 2011 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5
slimdrag00n wrote on Wed, 01 June 2011 19:21

vonKreedon wrote on Thu, 19 May 2011 16:15

nmid wrote on Thu, 19 May 2011 13:01


Is that so?
I thought it was on account of

2. * Waypoint 0 load tasks (if done by hand) *
3. Waypoint 0 unload tasks
4. Waypoint 0 Colonization/Ground Combat resolution (with possible tech gain)
25. * Planets with 0 colonists become uninhabited (lose starbase and defences) *

So your planet was still inhabited.
If the enemy had come in with WP1, it would have been a different matter as that is :
26. Waypoint 1 unload tasks


I believe this to be the explanation. While you did not lose any colonists in combat the Stars program had not set the planet to uninhabited and so told you that your non-existent pop had been defeated. IIRC there is no potential for tech gain from such pseudo-combat.


This similar thing just happened to me now and I do not understand it.

I had a planet with 200 pop. I saw that it could get pop dropped thus I sent a colony ship to upload all population. The ship got there and it only had 100 pop in it. The other 100 I am sure died from being on a red planet. This turn is where I understand that they could have dropped on me due to an imaginary amount of pop left on the planet.

What I don't get his how another whole year goes by and my colony ship with my 100 pop goes to my other planet and they get to drop on me when I am no longer there.

So are you sure he could not get tech? That is my only concern.



So let me get this right.

1. You picked up pop in year 1 with WP1
2. The other player (enemy) did not have any colonists in orbit in year 1.
3. In year 2, you noticed that the enemy occupied the planet with WP1.

My question is, are you sure he didn't colonise the planet and pop-dropped it?

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Wed, 01 June 2011 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slimdrag00n is currently offline slimdrag00n

 
Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 630
Registered: January 2009
Location: new york -5

Quote:



So let me get this right.

1. You picked up pop in year 1 with WP1
2. The other player (enemy) did not have any colonists in orbit in year 1.
3. In year 2, you noticed that the enemy occupied the planet with WP1.

My question is, are you sure he didn't colonise the planet and pop-dropped it?



Thanks for the idea, breaking it down by year lets me see it in a better perspective.

Year 1. I sent colony ship to upload all pop WP1.
(which doesn't take effect until next turn)

Year 2. My 100 pop was in ship, and had orders to then go to a different planet. He had a ship with pop there.
(So I think I understand now he did a wp0 on it because this is the year the imaginary pop is left over on the planet)

Year 3. I had my pop in my ship and sent to another planet.
(His Wp0 orders to drop on my imaginary left over pop let him drop on the planet with no chance of tech)

I could not understand your question "My question is, are you sure he didn't colonise the planet and pop-dropped it?"


Well I thought my circumstance was different but looking at it now its not. I am Laughing at my self for getting confused with the wp0 and wp1 stuff.



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Ranked games: 8-1
Recently won the game Knife Fight.
Looking for a practice duel.
.......

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Wed, 01 June 2011 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
slimdrag00n wrote on Wed, 01 June 2011 17:41

His Wp0 orders to drop on my imaginary left over pop let him drop on the planet with no chance of tech

I'm not so sure there was no chance of getting tech. Sherlock

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Wed, 01 June 2011 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slimdrag00n is currently offline slimdrag00n

 
Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 630
Registered: January 2009
Location: new york -5

Well if he got tech from my imaginary pop left over on a planet that would be ridiculous!

Edit: I never heard of this situation until it happened to him and me. Should be in the Stars must know section if you ask me.

[Updated on: Wed, 01 June 2011 14:55]



......
Ranked games: 8-1
Recently won the game Knife Fight.
Looking for a practice duel.
.......

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Wed, 01 June 2011 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5
slimdrag00n wrote on Wed, 01 June 2011 21:11

Quote:



So let me get this right.

1. You picked up pop in year 1 with WP1
2. The other player (enemy) did not have any colonists in orbit in year 1.
3. In year 2, you noticed that the enemy occupied the planet with WP1.

My question is, are you sure he didn't colonise the planet and pop-dropped it?



Thanks for the idea, breaking it down by year lets me see it in a better perspective.

Year 1. I sent colony ship to upload all pop WP1.
(which doesn't take effect until next turn)

Year 2. My 100 pop was in ship, and had orders to then go to a different planet. He had a ship with pop there.
(So I think I understand now he did a wp0 on it because this is the year the imaginary pop is left over on the planet)

Year 3. I had my pop in my ship and sent to another planet.
(His Wp0 orders to drop on my imaginary left over pop let him drop on the planet with no chance of tech)

I could not understand your question "My question is, are you sure he didn't colonise the planet and pop-dropped it?"


Well I thought my circumstance was different but looking at it now its not. I am Laughing at my self for getting confused with the wp0 and wp1 stuff.




Sorry, that was incorrect english.
I meant to say "My question is, are you sure he didn't colonise the planet and didn't pop-drop it?"
which is bad use of double negatives too..
sigh.

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Wed, 01 June 2011 22:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
slimdrag00n wrote on Wed, 01 June 2011 20:54

Well if he got tech from my imaginary pop left over on a planet that would be ridiculous!

Edit: I never heard of this situation until it happened to him and me. Should be in the Stars must know section if you ask me.

Yeah. Silly hair

It's been discussed before and before. That's why there's that quite oddly placed event in the Order of Events. But yeah, it's one of those counterintuitive could-be-a-bug things that probably needs its own little spotlight... Deal

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Sun, 05 June 2011 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
perrindom is currently offline perrindom

 
Warrant Officer
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Duel Club Champion 2009

Messages: 129
Registered: August 2005
Location: Denmark
 let me toss this into the discussion about imaginary pop left on the ground: will it make any difference if, instead of manually uploading, you issue a "Load All Available" order? How about "Set Waypoint To" zero order?

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Sun, 05 June 2011 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
perrindom wrote on Sun, 05 June 2011 21:14

will it make any difference if, instead of manually uploading, you issue a "Load All Available" order? How about "Set Waypoint To" zero order?

Not really. The "uninhabited" check would happen the same, at the same point in the OoE. The real question is: why does that important check happen at that odd time? Sherlock

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: OoE - bug? (up- and unload pop) Fri, 10 June 2011 02:55 Go to previous message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1112
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Location: SW3 & 10023
nmid wrote on Thu, 19 May 2011 13:18

vonKreedon wrote on Fri, 20 May 2011 01:45

IIRC there is no potential for tech gain from such pseudo-combat.


I think the chances of getting tech are the same as actual ground combat.

However this being quite a rare event, one might not end up with too many "test cases".


Someone needs to test this! Do I need to make some coffee?

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