Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Bar » Master Trader- game proposal
| Master Trader- game proposal |
Tue, 05 April 2011 15:08  |
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| BlueTurbit |
 | Lt. Commander
RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 |
Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas | |
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New game idea: I will create and host it if there is interest.
Comments and suggestions to improve the idea are welcome.
The game: "Master Trader"
The basic scenario:
All races grow for 100 years and play begins in 2500.
Pop grows, but all production and activity is stalled due to a space oddity.
However, the Master Trader race produces and researches, and having made an agreement with the mystery traders, the race acquires advanced technology from them during the 100-year bubble.
The Master Trader race is neutral and its only function is to conduct trading with the other races. Master Trader is played by me, the host.
It offers technology and advanced ships in the form of auctions, which are held every two or three years.
Auctions, items for sale, are announced with in-game message to all races.
Races bid on the items by sending in-game message to the Master Trader, the top three bidders get the tech or ships from the Master Trader. The payments/bidding is in the form of minerals.
After one year of bidding via in-game message, the Master Trader delivers the items purchased to the winning races and sends freighter ships to their planet to receive the mineral payments.
BlueTurbit Country/RockReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Master Trader- game proposal |
Tue, 05 April 2011 18:04  |
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| BlueTurbit |
| Lt. Commander
RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 |
Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas | |
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CA could be: no TT allowed.
JOAT HW pop could be cut off at about 1 million the first 100 years to keep in stride with the other races.
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| Re: Master Trader- game proposal |
Wed, 06 April 2011 12:08 |
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| BlueTurbit |
| Lt. Commander
RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 |
Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas | |
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On second thought: IT with a good hab second world will have more pop than JOAT by 2500.
SS will gain some tech levels via intelligence gathering. Maybe a dozen or so more levels by 2500.
AR will have maybe two or three times more minerals than others by then.
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| Re: Master Trader- game proposal |
Wed, 06 April 2011 16:37 |
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| slimdrag00n wrote on Thu, 07 April 2011 05:21 |
I am assuming for him to be the mystery trader he must have some heavy duty editing skills with some sort of program.
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Not really, with complete control over regens, the right bug knowledge, 100 years to play & catch the MT its not that hard to get every toy there is.
But yeah, I'd use a tool.
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| Re: Master Trader- game proposal |
Thu, 07 April 2011 13:05 |
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| BlueTurbit |
| Lt. Commander
RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 |
Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas | |
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No special tools or tricks, well, almost. I would be using automation to speed up repetitive tasks, like regens.
Trader race is IT. Mostly research and grow production planets, meet MT's, and setup gates near each race's HW for trade deliveries and to pick up mineral payments. Regens to get more MT's and better results.
Ran a couple of tests and results are good. More than a dozen MT's are met by 2500.
In tests I acquired more than two dozen MT scouts for trading. I could increase that, now that I have experience. These will be offered in batches after a few years, so they don't go out and try to kill HW's right away. LOL
IT and Joat come out best in total pop and resources by 2500.
In test AR was lowest, but had way more minerals due to AR mining, while others have no mines or factories above the ones they start with.
Probably will give all races about 5000 of each mineral to start with. And AR will have about double that. If necessary, AR would get a boost to increase resources by 2500 in order to be more equal to others.
I would shoot for a medium universe with at least 8-12 players, about 30 planets each with respect to density.
If less than 8, maybe a small universe would work best. Better with more players, but if game ends up small, it would be a good test for a possible bigger future game, with more info on how to improve game.
Also considering maybe having each race meet a few MT's and acquire some tech items before 2500 via Trader supplied ships to meet MT. For balance, all races would get same items.
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| Re: Master Trader- game proposal |
Thu, 07 April 2011 14:54 |
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| BlueTurbit |
| Lt. Commander
RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 |
Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas | |
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| XyliGUN wrote on Thu, 07 April 2011 13:08 |
| BlueTurbit wrote |
No special tools or tricks...
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BlueTurbit, I guess I can try to make your life a bit easier with that setup. I can edit game files and give your Master Trader any required tech levels, trader toys, minerals, population, planets scouting data (and other stuff) right in the 2400. To be fair I didn't test that yet, but based on my previous edits/merges I'm pretty sure everything will work just fine. Let me know if you think I have to try.
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Yikes! Will message you and discuss possibilities for test game.
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| Re: Master Trader- game proposal |
Sat, 09 April 2011 16:07 |
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Chapter 1
After having experienced something of this nature in real life.. could I suggest public auctions?
It sure will be interesting as ppl will bid just to drive up prices as well as having to take care that they don't get stuck with a killer winning bid. Brings in more drama to the game.
Chapter 2
Ofcourse, to keep it balanced, perhaps a 24 hour deadline in a private game forum.. and to stop ppl from making last min bids to win, only 2 or 3 bids per player.. and only the top 2 (or 3) bidders get it.
I remember the Government started with a reserve price.. and then had bidding rounds where everyone was given once bid each round, to outbid the winning bid of the last round.. a limit of 20-50% more than the winning bid ... and there were multiple rounds.
Lead to quite an expensive 3G auction here.
Chapter 3
You might have to change it for this game.. if you are willing to look at this option, we could brainstorm possible scenarios that will take into account that not everyone can be online non-stop and the bidding has to be completed in 1-2 game years.. while getting in atleast 2-3 bidding rounds.
Chapter 4
Any ally restrictions, as I'm sure that will affect public auctions.
Chapter 5
Also, let me get this clear.. we can start of with 2400 normally now? So that means no 100 year growth of pop, so all races are back in picture.
Bids are in minerals so I'm guessing a lot of mineral efficient races, possibly even ARM ships.
Chapter 6
It's a bit late to ask, but I was just hoping that I would understand after reading a few more posts.
I do have to ask.. what type of items will be on sale?
Only ships (MT specialised ships or BB/Nubians as well?) or
tech (specific levels that are made available by scrapping method?) and or
MT toys (lot's of scrapping reqd there...).
Just curious as to the scope of items being sold by you, as the master trader.
Chapter 7
Also, will you have some sort of advance notice of items going to be sold, so that players can plan out 10-20 years in advance... either to win the auction, or have possible defences ready against the winners?
Chapter 8
Speaking of which, will the winners be identified, if you don't go the public auction route?
Nmid.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Master Trader- game proposal |
Sat, 09 April 2011 18:01 |
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| BlueTurbit |
| Lt. Commander
RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 |
Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas | |
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I want to use the KISS formula.
Don't want to add to game micromanagement by complicating the auction process. Besides, that would likely open the door for too much manipulation. Isn't that what happens on EBay auctions?
If the government does it, then I don't want to do it the same way. 
Yes, game will start from the beginning without 100 extra gens.
Because I now know that XyliGUN can set it up pretty much how I want it to be.
Yes, since minerals is the currency, they will be important. But then, that depends on the bidding. Might be a bunch of low bidders winning the top three bids. Especially in the beginning years when there are less minerals. Might be you bid on a bunch of alien miner ships. 
The less I tell about what's coming the better. The MT doesn't announce what's coming. Well, for most players. Might be a few who know how to find out.
Trade items will be advanced ships, based on the game years.
Don't want to send out nubians in 2410. LOL
Scrap ship sets with several levels of tech gain per set.
I might even sell some intel reports once in a while.
Have to play it by ear, as we go. This is a first attempt at this kind of game, and things will be learned.
Might make some inquiries from all races for ships they desire, and fill some auctions based on most requested items.
I'm thinking, I will keep winners ID's secret. Gossip will take care of that. I probably will only announce the winning bid amount to all, but not disclose names or other bids.
Just to give others a feel for what bids could have won the items.
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| Re: Master Trader- game proposal |
Mon, 11 April 2011 05:56 |
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 m.a@stars |
 | Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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| XyliGUN wrote on Thu, 07 April 2011 20:08 |
BlueTurbit, I guess I can try to make your life a bit easier with that setup. I can edit game files and give your Master Trader any required tech levels, trader toys, minerals, population, planets scouting data (and other stuff) right in the 2400.
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Can you edit Homeworlds too? Make any planet a HW, perhaps? 
What about giving the Master Trader PRT-specific items, like SS cloaks, CA OAs, IS super-freighters, HE metamorphs, IT gates? 
Also, you should perhaps publish the details on the data structures that you'll be editing to perform your game-enhancing magicks. 
Which reminds me, there was a way to create semi-permanent wormholes that would be quite sellable too as trade routes... 
[Updated on: Mon, 11 April 2011 07:12]
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Master Trader- game proposal |
Mon, 11 April 2011 06:05 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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| BlueTurbit wrote on Sun, 10 April 2011 00:01 |
Have to play it by ear, as we go. This is a first attempt at this kind of game, and things will be learned.
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May I suggest you could use a somewhat simpler approach for the 1st experiment? Like, do it the way the MT does it: no auction, just a fixed price. 
Prices could vary depending on what's being offered and the amount of races wanting it. Or perhaps you could serve 1st those who offered surpluses, much like the MT gives bonuses too.
You'd thus have market forces, with a simpler management. Also, to better realize each tech's potential, the playing ground should allow enough room, so I wouldn't try this in a small galaxy. 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Master Trader- game proposal |
Mon, 11 April 2011 06:54 |
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If I can offer some advice I learned from selling stuff in Pirates...
with minerals as currency...don't sell orbital miners.
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| Re: Master Trader- game proposal |
Mon, 11 April 2011 07:05 |
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| m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 11 April 2011 15:35 |
| BlueTurbit wrote on Sun, 10 April 2011 00:01 |
Have to play it by ear, as we go. This is a first attempt at this kind of game, and things will be learned.
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May I suggest you could use a somewhat simpler approach for the 1st experiment? Like, do it the way the MT does it: no auction, just a fixed price.
Prices could vary depending on what's being offered and the amount of races wanting it. Or perhaps you could serve 1st those who offered surpluses, much like the MT gives bonuses too.
You'd thus have market forces, with a simpler management. Also, to better realize each tech's potential, the playing ground should allow enough room, so I wouldn't try this in a small galaxy.
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| gible wrote on Mon, 11 April 2011 16:24 |
If I can offer some advice I learned from selling stuff in Pirates...
with minerals as currency...don't sell orbital miners.
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Both make the game sound more manageable.
Race design as well as getting the stuff, without the auction, as long as you can pay the fixed price ! 
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Master Trader- game proposal |
Mon, 11 April 2011 10:23 |
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| BlueTurbit |
| Lt. Commander
RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011 |
Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas | |
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| m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 11 April 2011 05:05 |
| BlueTurbit wrote on Sun, 10 April 2011 00:01 |
Have to play it by ear, as we go. This is a first attempt at this kind of game, and things will be learned.
|
May I suggest you could use a somewhat simpler approach for the 1st experiment? Like, do it the way the MT does it: no auction, just a fixed price.
Prices could vary depending on what's being offered and the amount of races wanting it. Or perhaps you could serve 1st those who offered surpluses, much like the MT gives bonuses too.
You'd thus have market forces, with a simpler management. Also, to better realize each tech's potential, the playing ground should allow enough room, so I wouldn't try this in a small galaxy.
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Why would that be simpler? What can be simpler than selling to the highest bidders? I don't have to make a price list and keep track of prices, bonuses, etc. Neither does anyone else. Just: "I bid x minerals on this item."
The highest bidders already includes "those who offered surpluses", they offered more than the others and get it first.
Price fixing? The Master Trader doesn't fix prices. He only believes in trade. No minimum or maximum bids. The highest bidders get the items first. They gave more, so they get more.
The Master Trader is not the MT. Different marketing strategy. Different products. And you don't have to wait more than 40 years to get them. In the first few years you can already get some fast pen scouts and freighters, and more. Faster expansion right from the beginning. And you can buy some tech scraps and boost research much earlier even than trading with allies.
And if you want, you can trade with others earlier, as you will have more to trade than is usually the case in early years.
IF, you win the bids on the items. There's the catch. You have to be one of the top bidders to get advanced items.
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| Re: Master Trader- game proposal |
Sat, 16 April 2011 16:12 |
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| XyliGUN |
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Messages: 325
Registered: July 2004
Location: Russia, St.Petersburg | 
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| ma.stars wrote |
Can you edit Homeworlds too? Make any planet a HW, perhaps?
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Yes and no, which is actually no. I can edit hst/m files to make all planets a HW (to do this you just need to set one bit in planet structure) and Stars! would show all of them as HW. But game engine will depromote them back after next gen and only those are real HW will keep their HW mark.
| ma.stars wrote |
What about giving the Master Trader PRT-specific items, like SS cloaks, CA OAs, IS super-freighters, HE metamorphs, IT gates?
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As far as I know there is no way to give possibility to build PRT-specific items of other PRTs, but I can create a fleet right in 2400, which will contain all required ships with these items, the same way as if they were transferred.
| ma.stars wrote |
Also, you should perhaps publish the details on the data structures that you'll be editing to perform your game-enhancing magicks.
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The biggest problem here is that these structures are useless without encryption knowledge. When I was just starting my research on game structures I hit into that problem - I know some structures, but I don't know encryption... so, I have nothing to do with structures... and only when I found encryption it start making sense...
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
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