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Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Wed, 23 March 2011 15:45

Azrael

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Treasure Hunt Winner May 16, 2011
Past Weekly Puzzle Master

Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 41
Registered: February 2011
Location: 53° 34′ 28&...

Hey,
Does anyone know the probability that fleets explode if they traveling with warp 10, without a warp 10 engine?

Azrael

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Wed, 23 March 2011 17:26

wasp

Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 16
Registered: January 2008
Location: Finland

10% chance for each ship (so if you warp 1000 chaff about 900 will arrive)

Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Wed, 23 March 2011 17:32

Azrael

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Treasure Hunt Winner May 16, 2011
Past Weekly Puzzle Master

Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 41
Registered: February 2011
Location: 53° 34′ 28&...

Even if they are in the same fleet?

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Wed, 23 March 2011 17:38

nmid

Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

Quote:

All engines have an absolute maximum speed, a maximum safe speed, a maximum free speed and an optimum speed.
The absolute maximum speed for all engines is warp 10. The maximum safe speed for most ships is warp 9. You can push your fleet to warp 10, but you'll have a 10% chance of losing each ship in the fleet at that speed. Only ships using Warp 10 capable engines can travel safely at warp 10.

Sorry I didn't think of checking the help file earlier :s
It was under "warp speed".

Nmid.

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Wed, 23 March 2011 20:31

Azrael

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Treasure Hunt Winner May 16, 2011
Past Weekly Puzzle Master

Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 41
Registered: February 2011
Location: 53° 34′ 28&...

Ok,
thank you all.
Azrael

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Thu, 24 March 2011 13:40

iztok

Commander

Messages: 1206
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe

Hi!

Azrael wrote on Wed, 23 March 2011 20:45

Does anyone know the probability that fleets explode if they traveling with warp 10, without a warp 10 engine?

That totaly depends of the necessity for the ship to arrive. If it doesn't matter, it's near 0. If it MUST arrive, it's near 1. Just check for yourself.
Wink

BR, Iztok

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Thu, 24 March 2011 13:55

Azrael

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Treasure Hunt Winner May 16, 2011
Past Weekly Puzzle Master

Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 41
Registered: February 2011
Location: 53° 34′ 28&...

And if you want that at least 4 of 6 SHips arive it becomes very hard to calculate the probability.

Its the Integral of the Binomial Distibution from 4 to 6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_distribution

And its about 98.415 %

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Thu, 24 March 2011 14:18

nmid

Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

Is there any way to send 10 colo privateers at Warp 10, and only one of them colonising at the end of the journey.

I don't want all of them being used up... but want atleast 1 to colonise the planet.

I'm guessing the answer is "No" and "Set only 3-4 fleets".

:@

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Thu, 24 March 2011 14:23

Azrael

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Treasure Hunt Winner May 16, 2011
Past Weekly Puzzle Master

Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 41
Registered: February 2011
Location: 53° 34′ 28&...

Maybe only the first one will colonise and you get some Messages that the Planet is still colonised.
But you should try it by your own.

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Thu, 24 March 2011 14:31

nmid

Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

Azrael wrote on Thu, 24 March 2011 23:53

Maybe only the first one will colonise and you get some Messages that the Planet is still colonised.
But you should try it by your own.

I ran a testbed and all ships got colonised..
looking for a way, where only one colonises, out of all the ships that reach the target.

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Thu, 24 March 2011 14:45

neilhoward

Commander

Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023

<del> I think that is doable. Send them as separate fleets and the first will colonize and the rest will give you a message that the planet is already colonised. I think this is how I did it. As with all things, better to test it. </del>

I would advise sending fewer than 10 unless you are HE or have CE. Loaded colony ships are expensive and the more you send, the more you are likely to lose. 3-4 might be best odds.

The "chance" of such pseudo-randomness is very near standard distribution. If you flip a coin ten times, and repeat 1000 times, it is very likely that it will come up heads 10 times in a row about five time out of the thousand.

That is a lot of fuel to mine Smile

[Updated on: Thu, 24 March 2011 14:49]

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Fri, 25 March 2011 05:55

magic9mushroom

Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008

nmid wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 05:31

Azrael wrote on Thu, 24 March 2011 23:53

Maybe only the first one will colonise and you get some Messages that the Planet is still colonised.
But you should try it by your own.

I ran a testbed and all ships got colonised..
looking for a way, where only one colonises, out of all the ships that reach the target.

Send them all with non-colonise orders.

Colonise at WP0 the next turn (which is basically the same as WP1 colonisation).

Easy. Laughing

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Fri, 25 March 2011 06:51

gible

Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 22:55

Send them all with non-colonise orders.

Colonise at WP0 the next turn (which is basically the same as WP1 colonisation).

Except its not - WP0 unloading happens before WP0 colonisation. And if the pop is already in orbit you also can't WP1 unload.
Thumbs Down

lost queue management
Thumbs Down

lost production (facts, mines, starbase, stargate!!!) (fuel)
Thumbs Down

lost pop growth
Thumbs Down

lost SS spy bonus
Thumbs Down

various risks for having low a population

...afaict the only thing you get to keep is the IS overflow.

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Fri, 25 March 2011 07:09

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

nmid wrote on Thu, 24 March 2011 19:31

I ran a testbed and all ships got colonised..

Did you send them all together in a single fleet or as separate fleets? Sherlock

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Fri, 25 March 2011 07:59

magic9mushroom

Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008

gible wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 21:51

magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 22:55

Send them all with non-colonise orders.

Colonise at WP0 the next turn (which is basically the same as WP1 colonisation).

Except its not - WP0 unloading happens before WP0 colonisation. And if the pop is already in orbit you also can't WP1 unload.
Thumbs Down

lost queue management
Thumbs Down

lost production (facts, mines, starbase, stargate!!!) (fuel)
Thumbs Down

lost pop growth
Thumbs Down

lost SS spy bonus
Thumbs Down

various risks for having low a population

...afaict the only thing you get to keep is the IS overflow.

IIRC WP0 colonisation happens before production and pop growth.

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Fri, 25 March 2011 08:14

nmid

Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

[email

m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 16:39]

nmid wrote on Thu, 24 March 2011 19:31

I ran a testbed and all ships got colonised..

Did you send them all together in a single fleet or as separate fleets? Sherlock

Separate fleets. All set to the target planet at Warp10. They all colonised the planet.

magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 17:29

gible wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 21:51

magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 22:55

Send them all with non-colonise orders.

Colonise at WP0 the next turn (which is basically the same as WP1 colonisation).

Except its not - WP0 unloading happens before WP0 colonisation. And if the pop is already in orbit you also can't WP1 unload.
Thumbs Down

lost queue management
Thumbs Down

lost production (facts, mines, starbase, stargate!!!) (fuel)
Thumbs Down

lost pop growth
Thumbs Down

lost SS spy bonus
Thumbs Down

various risks for having low a population

...afaict the only thing you get to keep is the IS overflow.

IIRC WP0 colonisation happens before production and pop growth.

It does, but gible's talking about the colo from the other fleets in orbit. As WP0 unloading won't occur, those colonists will be wasted in orbit.

[Updated on: Fri, 25 March 2011 08:23]

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Sat, 26 March 2011 11:46

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

nmid wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 13:14

Separate fleets. All set to the target planet at Warp10. They all colonised the planet.

Weird. The "is already colonized" check should prevent that... Shocked

I wonder if there's a rationale for such a special case in the code, or some kind of bug. Sherlock

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Sat, 26 March 2011 16:19

BlueTurbit

Lt. Commander

RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011

Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas

nmid wrote on Thu, 24 March 2011 13:31

I ran a testbed and all ships got colonised..
looking for a way, where only one colonises, out of all the ships that reach the target.

UhUhUh

BlueTurbit Country/Rock

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Sat, 26 March 2011 16:23

nmid

Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

BlueTurbit wrote on Sun, 27 March 2011 01:49

nmid wrote on Thu, 24 March 2011 13:31

I ran a testbed and all ships got colonised..
looking for a way, where only one colonises, out of all the ships that reach the target.

UhUhUh

So there is no way?
Crying or Very Sad

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Sat, 26 March 2011 17:59

BlueTurbit

Lt. Commander

RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011

Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas

No way. But I could be wrong.

BlueTurbit Country/Rock

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Sun, 27 March 2011 05:47

iztok

Commander

Messages: 1206
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe

Hi!

Quote:

looking for a way, where only one colonises, out of all the ships that reach the target.

When I had Cheap Engines, I managed that with 2 cheap colonizers, sent separately with orders to colonize, and two accompanying freighter fleets with pop. This way I had quite large chances at colonizing and having some decent pop there.

The "All ships colonizing" behaviour is IMO intentional. If each ship could create colony (setting the flag "colonized"), would the next player after you be able to pop-drop it in the same turn Shocked

, giving him quite an advantage.

BR, Iztok

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Sun, 27 March 2011 21:19

Eagle of Fire

Lt. Commander

Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5

I think it is only an artifact of the colonization engine.

If two different players try to colonize the same planet on the same turn, a battle ensue. In the in game message, it says that battle for control of the planet occur at that time and it is usually the player who have the most colons in the colonizing fleet who win the planet.

In this case, I think it is exactly the same thing except that there is no battle because no second party is involved. In the case that one would be, all the colonizing fleets would be involved in the battle for supremacy which would give better odds to the player with more fleets or colons.

So I'd say, in code term: if planet is not colonized already before colony turn happen in turns of events, make fleet colonize planet. If planet is already colonized before turn of event, then don't colonize.

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I am on a hot streak... Literally.

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Sun, 27 March 2011 21:38

nmid

Commander

Messages: 1608
Registered: January 2011
Location: GMT +5.5

I remember reading a duel between Perr and Bystander ( I think.. and I think it was the finals which were abandoned ) where this was discussed. (Colonising by opposing fleets).

I also remember one of the pro's telling me that in one of his testbeds, his LF coloniser was overrun by a colonising Colo ship.

I didn't testbed it myself and it's on my to-do list of Testbeds to run... but I think it was due to player number.
I might have understood him wrong.

In my AI games, I always won against the AI though..HE or not.. but then again, I was number 1 there.

I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Mon, 16 May 2011 17:06

slimdrag00n

Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 630
Registered: January 2009
Location: new york -5

nmid wrote on Sun, 27 March 2011 21:38

I remember reading a duel between Perr and Bystander ( I think.. and I think it was the finals which were abandoned ) where this was discussed. (Colonising by opposing fleets).

I also remember one of the pro's telling me that in one of his testbeds, his LF colonizer was overrun by a colonising Colo ship.

I didn't testbed it myself and it's on my to-do list of Testbeds to run... but I think it was due to player number.
I might have understood him wrong.

In my AI games, I always won against the AI though..HE or not.. but then again, I was number 1 there.

You are correct about the player number. You beat the AI every time when colonizing a planet the same year most likely because you were always player 1.
Just thought Id add that encase you didn't get to the testbeds.

......
Ranked games: 8-1
Recently won the game Knife Fight.
Looking for a practice duel.
.......

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Re: Traveling with Warp 10 without Warp 10 drives

Mon, 16 May 2011 17:32

Azrael

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Treasure Hunt Winner May 16, 2011
Past Weekly Puzzle Master

Stars! Nova developer

Messages: 41
Registered: February 2011
Location: 53° 34′ 28&...

I just read that it is randoom choosen wich Player gets the Planet.

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