Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Bar » Anti-cheating tools
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Re: Anti-cheating tools |
Sun, 06 March 2011 05:29 |
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XyliGUN | | | Messages: 325
Registered: July 2004 Location: Russia, St.Petersburg |
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XyliGUN wrote | As of verifier - it's not ready yet. There is nothing impossible, but there are about 20 actions (with different subactions), which needs to be verified and it will take some time to make verifier ready enough. So, sorry, but don't expect a quick results here.
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m.a@stars wrote | If you need help with that, of any kind, I'll be glad to lend what experience I have in building/debugging similar tools.
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OK, once I'll have something to test I'll let you know, but do you have a knowledge on how to actually cheat?
m.a@stars wrote | From PaulCr's attempts, I gather most of these actions aren't that hard to detect.
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I've seen his tools and they are pretty impressive and his cheats checks as well, but I'm going to go a bit different way, I'll concentrate on checking each block integrity against current universe state, so in general it wouldn't a known bugs list check, but hopefull any potential cracking\hacking check, even if it's unknown so far.
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
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Re: Anti-cheating tools |
Sun, 06 March 2011 09:34 |
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m.a@stars | | Commander | Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004 Location: Third star to the left | |
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XyliGUN wrote on Sun, 06 March 2011 11:29 | do you have a knowledge on how to actually cheat?
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Only theoretical, but...
Quote: | I'll concentrate on checking each block integrity against current universe state, so in general it wouldn't a known bugs list check, but hopefull any potential cracking\hacking check, even if it's unknown so far.
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That's more my kind of turf / tool / interest. I knew some day all my experience with complex databases would pay off!
And, as many others have said, once the file format is well understood many cheats become possible, or even easy, so it shouldn't be hard to find / build test cases.
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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Re: Anti-cheating tools |
Sun, 06 March 2011 18:21 |
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XyliGUN | | | Messages: 325
Registered: July 2004 Location: Russia, St.Petersburg |
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Ron wrote | Personally, I wish that we knew the exact format of all the Stars! files.
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There no real need to make files structure public, it's actually too low level to start development from that point, so most (I'll bet that it's actually about 99,9%) of tool makers doesn't need to actually know its' structure. The only real need for tool makers is to have possibility programmatically access the same values and to make the same actions as you can do manually thru Stars itself. As I see it, we just need to have sort of API for this and once it will be available, there shouldn't be any need to knowing files structure.
[Updated on: Sun, 06 March 2011 18:30]
"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For LoveReport message to a moderator
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Re: Anti-cheating tools |
Sun, 06 March 2011 21:39 |
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XyliGUN wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 12:23 |
gible wrote | This is exactly why I requested a wrapper - then non-AH games could have the same security without the hassles of a third(fourth?)-party host.
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Gible, I can do it, but IMO it wouldn't help, since how can you ensure that host would actually use that wrapper? What happens on his computer is only known to him.
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In the case of a host only hst system where the other player only gets the xy+m file, I suppose some sort of detector "has my m file been sanitised?" program would be needed.
In cases where both players have access to the hst file(eg dropbox) it would be obvious.
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Re: Anti-cheating tools |
Mon, 07 March 2011 00:14 |
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magic9mushroom wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 15:56 |
gible wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 13:39 | In the case of a host only hst system where the other player only gets the xy+m file, I suppose some sort of detector "has my m file been sanitised?" program would be needed.
In cases where both players have access to the hst file(eg dropbox) it would be obvious.
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You can't check the host's .m file, though, so he could have sanitised yours but not his own.
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Assuming a sanitiser exists, and not just a wrapper.
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Re: Anti-cheating tools |
Mon, 07 March 2011 00:29 |
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magic9mushroom | | Commander | Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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gible wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 16:14 |
magic9mushroom wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 15:56 |
gible wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 13:39 | In the case of a host only hst system where the other player only gets the xy+m file, I suppose some sort of detector "has my m file been sanitised?" program would be needed.
In cases where both players have access to the hst file(eg dropbox) it would be obvious.
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You can't check the host's .m file, though, so he could have sanitised yours but not his own.
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Assuming a sanitiser exists, and not just a wrapper.
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Yes.
A determined hacker could, of course, make their own specific sanitiser, but I doubt anyone would bother going to all that trouble to cheat.
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Re: Anti-cheating tools |
Mon, 07 March 2011 13:01 |
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craebild | | Lieutenant | Messages: 568
Registered: December 2003 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark | |
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magic9mushroom wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 06:29 |
gible wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 16:14 |
magic9mushroom wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 15:56 |
gible wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 13:39 | In the case of a host only hst system where the other player only gets the xy+m file, I suppose some sort of detector "has my m file been sanitised?" program would be needed.
In cases where both players have access to the hst file(eg dropbox) it would be obvious.
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You can't check the host's .m file, though, so he could have sanitised yours but not his own.
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Assuming a sanitiser exists, and not just a wrapper.
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Yes.
A determined hacker could, of course, make their own specific sanitiser, but I doubt anyone would bother going to all that trouble to cheat.
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Don't underestimate what a programmer might choose to do given some free time - Given the choice of playing against the computer or making a specific sanitiser, for example.
Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild
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Re: Anti-cheating tools |
Mon, 07 March 2011 20:25 |
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craebild wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 23:31 |
magic9mushroom wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 06:29 |
gible wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 16:14 |
magic9mushroom wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 15:56 |
gible wrote on Mon, 07 March 2011 13:39 | In the case of a host only hst system where the other player only gets the xy+m file, I suppose some sort of detector "has my m file been sanitised?" program would be needed.
In cases where both players have access to the hst file(eg dropbox) it would be obvious.
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You can't check the host's .m file, though, so he could have sanitised yours but not his own.
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Assuming a sanitiser exists, and not just a wrapper.
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Yes.
A determined hacker could, of course, make their own specific sanitiser, but I doubt anyone would bother going to all that trouble to cheat.
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Don't underestimate what a programmer might choose to do given some free time - Given the choice of playing against the computer or making a specific sanitiser, for example.
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Ok.. even if some programmer does make it, let me imagine what his game path will be.
He'll make his version of a sanitiser.
Play a few games, get undue advantage like knowing what the MT is about to give or extra hidden information.
He'll play for about a year or so and get a reputation of being a really good player or really lucky.
He'll stop playing over time.
The tool will die with him, as he won't likely reveal it's existence to everyone.
The public tools however will continue to exist and be used by loads more people.
I still think it's a good idea releasing the tools.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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Re: Anti-cheating tools |
Sat, 30 April 2011 16:59 |
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A good idea.. one that would be well received if it comes out.. but
practically speaking :
1. That would mean a new program written from scratch for android (with encryption).
2. Demand for an android application vs utility.
How many ppl will actually give up playing on laptops/desktops because of the android app? Not many.
Perhaps just for an emergency turn or so, but not for regular playing.
3. Ease of use/playability in an android capacitative touchscreen...
If it had been resistive, perhaps playing with so many cursors and dropdown boxes would have been feasible.. but not with the capacitative system.
Sorry for being a nay-sayer, but just trying to be realistic here.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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