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pregame alliances? Tue, 11 March 2003 18:20 Go to next message
jodie is currently offline jodie


Messages: 3
Registered: March 2003

hi to all the dogs out there

i have heard out of the dark scene of the space,
that there might be a pregame alliance somewhere
in this map

does anyone know anything about this or was it just
an missinformation???
i know it wasnīt specially forbitten in the game
description, but i donīt think that this would be
fair against all the other player.

and if so, i will do ANYTHING against these guys

so long, Jörg (Paff)

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Re: pregame alliances? Wed, 12 March 2003 03:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 385
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
You are right... it was not forbidden...

Two things:
1.) What is the difference between a pre-game alliance and a normal alliance?
2.) Is a pre-game alliance an advantage?

It is worth to discuss this...

my opinion to 1.)

Pre-game alliances can be different in a form that hab-values
can me chosen to match the gaps in the other one's habs.
That means habs are not chosen as efficiently as they could,
and if the allies end up far from each other it turns out
to be a disadvantage.

Pre-game alliances can chose the cheap tech fields so one
can research one field cheap which the other one has expensive.
That means one of them will always be behind in weapons-tech,
and if one of them is killed, the other player has a problem,
as his race has inefficient research settings.

More advantages of pre-game alliances are also gained by normal
early alliances: tech trade, combined scouting, combined attacks,

So no powerful advantage in my opinion... Even more: you lose
the most important feature in Stars, when playing with your friends: meeting new people, diplomacy, and you miss the chance
to learn things from others...
Most of what i learned i got from new allies... if i had played
with my friends, i would not have learned as much as i did...

So the question is not: is it unfair?
the question is: is it honorable?

I think there is no major advantage (I know a bit about the
alliance you talk about, and i am allied with one of them.
If I had the feeling it was a major advantage, I would not
have done that!)...

And also I could start a discussion if it was honorable to play
a CA TT monster in a game full of newbies...
It is not forbidden, ok... but when I opened the game I forgot
to mention to forbid pre-game-alliances and CA TT monsters...

So it is VERY similar to the issue you rise...

And i think a CA TT is much more powerful than any
pre-game alliance i can see here... so what would you
say if here was a posting:

I heared there is a CA TT monster in the game?
If it is true I will do ANYTHING against it...

Just something to think about...

and just my 2cts

Robert, your ex-Host

2b v !2b -> ?

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icon12.gif  Re: pregame alliances? Wed, 12 March 2003 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jodie is currently offline jodie


Messages: 3
Registered: March 2003
Hey robert,

maybe i am a little wrong but in my opinion there IS
an advantage of an pre-game alliance!

1. The point with the efficiently choosen hubīs
I think with this and the knowledge that my partners
reserve me the planets that i need in their clusters
i have strikly more effecive planets in the map.

And your argument that they donīt know if they are near
enough with their clusters is also a little bit hairy.
If you have an IT in your alliance itīs quite easy to
reach every corner of the map before the game really

2. The point with the cheap tech fields
Yes i am real newbie but i also know that the endgame phase
is mostly far behind the 26 tech level (weapon, const) knowledge.
So itīs definitiv an advantage to share tech before the endgame
phase with extremly loyal partners to kick out the other player
who doesnīt have these techīs.
And when you can trust 100% your partners itīs no matter to
research maybe bio or electro because you are very shure that
you get the other techs too!

Ok, if there is no more "other" player in the game left you have
to overthink your own position, but in this game it would mean
that there are nearly 10-12 player dead.

3. The point with "loosing" an alliance partner
Spezially because everyone in the pregame alliance knows the
importance of the partners they will strickly fight together
against an opponent. And again is an IT very recommend for this
to gate every kind of ship to every place you want.

And then some lines to your "offtopic" appendix, Robert.
I think there is an big diffence between the discussion i startet
and the one you might want to import into this thread.
First of all is there no indication of an CA TT monster in the
game. Yes, i am an CA TT but this is my second real game and my first
try in an CA, but i donīt think itīs that easy to build a monster.
I wasnīt also forbitten playing an CA here, but if itīs such an
game winning race why was it only 2 times choosen on this game?
Instead of this is (in my opinion) an HP IT race not less stronger as
the CA, or why was it choosen 4 times!!!
And about "the game full of newbies": what i could see is, that there
are lotīs of anti-newbies in the game and only the minority (myself also)
are real newbies! If you really want an newbie game Robert then first
of all you shouldnīt be here!

Something more to think about....


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Re: pregame alliances? Thu, 20 March 2003 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
markusk is currently offline markusk

Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 29
Registered: February 2003
Location: germany

i think that if a real prem-game alliance (coordinated hab ranges) exist's. this is a real advantage. also i think it's a disadvantage when it becomes public knowledge because for the others on the there will be much more reasons to form alliances against you. get going on the dipolomatic channel and find partners.

ciao markus

PS: by the way who are the "bad" guys ?

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Re: pregame alliances? Thu, 20 March 2003 09:26 Go to previous message
Robert is currently offline Robert

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 385
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
I had a long discussion about this with joerg on the phone...

and i dont want to take the discussion into the public,
but some things:

i know a lot about this pre-game-alliance, and it is not
as dangerous at it seems. for one thing they did not use
all possible features (neither using smart races to interact,
not adjusting the hab values optimally...

also their races are quite weak, so there is no real harm
here... in fact telling everybody who it is would harm the
game more than it would help.

if you trust me on this, fine...
if you dont, go out and find out who they are on your own Smile
should be difficult by now, there are so many alliances out
there - difficult to say which one is the pre-game one...

doesnt matter anyway IMHO anymore...

so far so good


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