[Updated on: Sun, 01 March 2009 16:48]

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Micha wrote on Mon, 02 March 2009 00:34

Reason is same as you: design slots.

That's why I tend to use mainline beamer Nubs. Not actually throwaway, but at least they usually win, they stack well and are of use in main battles.

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m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 02 March 2009 12:00

Micha wrote on Mon, 02 March 2009 00:34 Reason is same as you: design slots. That's why I tend to use mainline beamer Nubs. Not actually throwaway, but at least they usually win, they stack well and are of use in main battles.

You won't be doing that when your enemy sends in 100 dirt cheap ships himselfs and strips all your minefields. You hunting those with 100 nubs would make him twice as happy.

I think Iztok is right when he said it looks like you haven't been challenged by a MM freak before.

mch

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Micha wrote on Mon, 02 March 2009 13:55

You won't be doing that when your enemy sends in 100 dirt cheap ships himselfs and strips all your minefields.

Perhaps not. I'd likely be busy destroying his main fleet(s).

But, seriously, I fail to see what's so good about a sweeper that cannot stand a minehit. When I see the hordes of cheap sweepers rushing at me at Warp4, begging to be reaped one after the other by superior ships, I cannot help but wonder.

Quote:

I think Iztok is right when he said it looks like you haven't been challenged by a MM freak before.

Ah, but I have. Once I was beaten as a late-game replacement player. #1 had overwhelming advantage, so I'm not sure MM had a significant role.

The other time it turned out I was the better MMer. Plus, it was fun watching him try to kill one of my sweeper nubs with half a dozen of his CCs and failing.

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[Updated on: Thu, 05 March 2009 13:28]

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Hi!

Sully wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 19:20

100 dirty cheap sweepers? At any point in the game (and this hurts must in the end) is that you only have 512 fleets. I've never seen more then a dozen of so sweepers in any One field.

I've counted my sweeper fleets in the current game: about 65, 267 live sweepers of 324 built. Despite they "cost" me some fleet slots, they provide significantly more of them: I almost never need to chaff-sweep, so they save me at least 100 fleet slots.

BR, Iztok

[Updated on: Thu, 05 March 2009 13:43]

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iztok wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 19:40

I almost never need to chaff-sweep, so they save me at least 100 fleet slots.

Good point.

Do I take it that your sweepers can survive a minehit? Or is it just that your enemies are lazy enough not to pursue them while they crawl along at safe speeds??

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Sully wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 19:20

I'm with the Lietenant, I'd be looking at the Main fleet.

I think the brass aren't telling all their dirty tricks...

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Hi!

[email

m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 20:46]Do I take it that your sweepers can survive a minehit?

Not alone. For that must be two.

Quote:

Or is it just that your enemies are lazy enough not to pursue them while they crawl along at safe speeds??

If I want a normal minefield gone, I calculate the probability to got to it's center and send enough fleets to have high chances of success. Usually 2 or 3 fleets are needed, but I've sent 6 if the need was great. If they don't get through, I usually split them into smaller fleets or even single ships and repeat the procedure. Since the MF is allready reduced, those smaller fleets usually sweep it completely, even if half of them are intercepted.

A nasty trick is to give sweepers disengage order and split usuall 5 sweepers in 4 fleets: 2 sweepers and 3*1 sweeper. Those last three move independently at low speed to 1 LY off the MF center, but the 2-sweepers fleet doesn't move and gets reinforced by a strong warship(s), or retreats, so interceptors hit my MF. OFC that can be countered, but only with lots of MM. Remember, I have ~65 sweeper fleets. At least a half of them are sweeping, from those at least a half can be manipulated that way. The bonus question is which ones will be these?

BR, Iztok

[Updated on: Thu, 05 March 2009 17:49]

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iztok wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 23:44

Not alone. For that must be two.

Not so cheap, then.

Quote:

If I want a normal minefield gone

That's when your opponent should start looking for you main fleet, shouldn't he?

Quote:

the 2-sweepers fleet doesn't move and gets reinforced by a strong warship(s), or retreats, so interceptors hit my MF. OFC that can be countered, but only with lots of MM.

Of course. Counter #1: forget the flimsy throwaways, target the strong ship, which is a better prize, particularly if you have several mainline nubs skirmishing nearby.
Counter #2: Pursue with mainline nubs that can survive a minehit, sweep the enemy MF, and even engage unwary defenders.

Looks like my flavor of sweeping is not that bad, after all.

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iztok wrote on Thu, 05 March 2009 23:44

The bonus question is which ones will be these?

Unrelevant. Since them all will be targeted for destruction by superior firepower, the real question is: which ones will be lucky enough to survive?

And the bonus question is: If you lose enough cheap sweepers, at which point they turn out to be not so cheap, after all?

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Hi!
m.a@stars, arguing outside a game about those "when ... - then ... " is IMO pointless. Everything can be proven, everything can be countered... every soldier can be general after the battle.

The only thing that counts is what you do IN the game. I'll let you know just one thing: there are very few players in our community that do so much in the game as I do. So I'll let you have your way here. In a game I will not.

BR, Iztok

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iztok wrote on Fri, 06 March 2009 19:22

m.a@stars, arguing outside a game about those "when ... - then ... " is IMO pointless. Everything can be proven, everything can be countered... every soldier can be general after the battle.

Handsomely put.

I'm only speaking from the experience of a few games where sweeping and skirmishing did actually take place and were somewhat important.

Quote:

The only thing that counts is what you do IN the game. I'll let you know just one thing: there are very few players in our community that do so much in the game as I do. So I'll let you have your way here. In a game I will not.

I'm busy in a huge game right now. I expect to put some of the things discussed here to practice soon.

Also, I hope we meet in a game one of these days, as indeed I have rarely met a player who actually did in a game half as much as myself.

[Updated on: Fri, 06 March 2009 14:53]

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[Updated on: Fri, 08 May 2009 11:12]

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