Home » Primary Racial Traits » PP » to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG!
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| Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! |
Sun, 09 March 2003 03:49   |
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 BackBlast |
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Messages: 215
Registered: February 2003
Location: A Rock | |
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| yucaf wrote on Fri, 07 March 2003 22:39 |
One thing for sure, PP is an expensive race in the Wizard. Is it worth it? Do you dominate it? Let us know!
Thanks,
YucaF
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Alright, I'll bite. I posted my idea for a WM race and so far it has done well. I've played it in a couple of duels and it has performed well for me (small, normal, further). I didn't hit 25k resources, but 17k I did have wasn't bad at all, I had pretty much absorbed all the room I could in the universe without stomping on too many enemy worlds so far... heh. Shortly though... 
First off, give up the notion that a PP is suppose to sit back and launch packets at its foes. Packets can be used, but usually as a support to a well coordinated attack. What is the point in taking territory you don't intend to use? Over extension is bad. So lets discuss how to build a race that could work. This will yet again be another untested but well thought out design (including testbeds, and bouncing ideas off Stalwart's head). 
PRT: PP
LRT: IFE, NRSE, ISB, OBRM
Hab: 1/6 Grav immune 19% GR
Swing either rad or temp widish, get it out of the middle (there are reasons for this to follow).
Econ: -F (5/25/5 no G box)
Mines: 12/3/7-8 (possibly go 10/3/7-8 if you really want more hab)
Tech: Energy, Weapons, Construction cheap. Rest expensive.
Now, how to operate this delicate beast. First you must understand the power of packets other than offensive possibilities. Packets can be used for terraforming. People living on the world are irrelevant, defences on the world are irrelevant, speed is irrelevant. Only the size of uncaught minerals are relevant. There are 2 possible types of terraforming. I will dub normal terraforming, terraforming. And modifying base values permaforming. In general 100kt of minerals has a 50% chance of terraforming, it also seems to have 5% of permaforming the world (by 1%). So, it will cost on average 200kt of a mineral to terraform a world, which in turn costs you 15 resources. There is potential here, 15 resources to terraform? Why is CA so powerful? Free terraforming, simple as that. So with PP we have the potential of really cheap (not free) terraforming. Some other minor details that are nice to know. Iron terraforms Grav, Bora terraforms Temp, Germ terraforms Rad. -F econ was chosen because we want the germ for terraforming. Boranium, everyone has boranium. Iron we stock pile and hide away in our basements for torp ships later. Another observation that I have made as I have done tests... Permaforming is a very expensive operation. If it does happen (it can happen with very few minerals), it generally will 'eat' the packet, allowing very little else as far as the desired actual terraforming. I believe it'll eat 1000kt-2000kt. So, lets say, I throw 2400kt at a planet. I get 1% permaform, I'm down to say 400kt left for other operations, and I might get 1-4% terraforming out of that instead of 5% - 15%. Not a very good deal. It is best to use multiple smaller packets 500-800 kt is size or so. Unless you are trying to permaform  In which case you're totally nuts. I tried this in a tiny, all wide hab... I was probably using on average 200,000kt of every mineral to permaform planets to be 100% to me. Note I was often swinging ALL habs from the opposite end of the bar.. But still, your nuts if you try. A few percent you could maybe justify, especially with say, a very narrow temp or rad bar (depending which you like more, germ or bora). Also remember that not all minerals thrown are lost. 33% are retained, you really should reconsider launching packets at planets that you are not going to inhabit.
Okay, now that we know how to exploit our packets in development of our colonies. We begin the game with 2 colonies, lets do what PP does best. Fire packets! Some advise only to use the 2nd world, but I say let 'em rip. You can explore much of the universe VERY quickly. Faster than ANY race. This should give you a fairly clear lay of the land. Everyone knows where you are, and what your PRT is, lets hope the WM next door isn't too paranoid. Put your good diplomatic hat on and be a reasonable neibor. This isn't a post on diplomacy.  Now, onto our expansion plans. Those nice juicy greens should be seen by us first, so away we go, just like any other race. Expand, grow, populate the worlds. Work on your techs like most races but try and elevate your energy to some decent levels. Don't even try terraforming with your warp 5 mass driver. Warp 5 sucks. About the time you hit weapons 10, energy 10 (11 prefer ed for warp 8 mass drivers). So, we have +/- 11 terraforming for rad and temp. We should be getting reasonable stockpiles of minerals on our worlds now too. All this hopefully happens as you start running out of greens and looking at the yellows in your space. This is where we take advantage of our cheap terraforming, turn the yellows green! Don't spare the minerals! Try and use multiple small packets as best you can. If you feel rich maybe you could try to permaform that narrow band hab just a little bit here and there. This is where those race points used for the PP PRT had better pay off... we want CA style speed at getting these yellows green and people on them. In a test bed this works quite well actually. It's nice to spend 2 years getting a yellow green rather than 5-10. As a planning note, you can colonize the same year a packet hits and your people will be safe (packet hits first). With the right size packets and a little luck, you look just like a CA 
Now, the role of packets on offence. It is natural as a -F to feel the need to expand into one of our neighbors. Hopefully our terraforming efforts went well and we have a jump on the non-CA types of the universe in our stock of population and terraformed planets. It is probably too early for most other races to have mass drivers, so we'll assume our full advantage of the driver-less race. Just to be fair, we'll also assume it's an IS with good defences on most to all worlds. Packets alone aren't going to take out these worlds. So we'll have a few tricks up our sleeves to use.
LBU/Packet combo:
This one is quite simple, as your offensive packet is one year away from a planet. You take the orbit, shoot down the starbase and LBU bomb the planet. This should level the defences to a very small to none margin. Next year, the packet will hit an undefended world. Packets hit before planetary production can take place, the defences cannot be restored to save the population. After most/all the colonists are dead you take the planet by force with your first rate storm troopers.
Deterraforming:
Packets always terraform to your hab settings. This only works against someone with a different hab. This is why ours are odd and wide. This works especially nice when the race has a narrow hab band. Smack his defences with your reasonable size packet, or even better... multiple smaller packets. This will cause mass (de)terraforming of the planet. Which is no fun on the other end when your nice juicy green goes yellow. Have skirmishers in the area to pick off the annoying attempts at catching your packets with freighters (initially easy, but as he catches on he will guard his transports, heh). Once any of the hab bars are out of his range his defences will be reduced to a measly 10. At which point the pain can start. Follow with normal bombers and your usual load of troops. Hopefully you changed it to a nice juicy green which can immediately throw up a space dock to repair/refuel your fleet. Or you can pound a few high warp packets on the planet to finish off the world. As a note, terraforming packets are generally launched at rated speeds so we don't have decay. Even at one warp faster, 10% less minerals, per year, is 10% less terraforming, per year. High damage packets depend on distance, if you're point blank, let her rip. If they have catchers, you need to down the starbase before your terraforming packet hits. Otherwise you just made a mineral delivery to your foe  Packets are even effective against AR in this respect. awwww, did I turn that world yellow? I'm so sorry.  But I would personally attempt to make good relations to any AR. Since they naturally do not fear PP on sight, you have good possibilities. It could open the doors for some real fun in the latter parts of the game. Permaformed enemy homeworlds anyone?
Packet of Death:
Ahh yes, can't forget the traditional "kaboom" method. "Stand back and let the artillery fire" method. Pick targets carefully. Make sure they don't have defences. Only spending one year in space is best if you are close enough. Because then the packet cannot be pocketed by freighters, nor can defences be built, or a mass driver. Zippo. If you have more years in space, have those interceptors standing by to nail those freighters. Forget this approach on a well defended world. Don't forget your ships and freighters to grab the extra space, or at the least... the surface minerals on the planet.
Blind Fury:
This is not really devastating, just annoying and fun. It also serves to cover your real attacks and make you less obvious. You have many planets with mass drivers, use them all and target planets in his space (preferable the back of his space so he seems them in flight for a long long time, smallest possible sizes). Launch! Make it look like the AI PP so he sees a few dozen packes in flight and is getting >20 "A mass packet appears to be headed toward System X..." messages. Not to mention the intel you get on your victim Hopefully he filters the message. Who knows what he'll let slip through then
After thoughts...
Don't forget to get your ammunition to the front lines, or your newly acquired planets that hopefully have large stocks of minerals  .
Packets are not a substitute for your fleet. Good fleet design, maintenance, and deployment is left as an exercise to all fleet commanders.
If you are getting out foxed with your packet attacks (with all these sweet tricks?! ha!). Switch back to normal non-packet oriented operations and use them only as your terraforming edge. Some stealth equipped fleets can aide any/all of the packed based strategies. Above all, use your cunning and smarts to pull off stunning attacks to outwit your enemy at every turn. This is much preferred to brute forcing your minerals through his defences. Additional packed based attack ideas are welcome, these are hardly all the possibilities. Lets hear a few more ideas out there.
Was this post long enough? I should really try this.. I think it would be a riot. There are lots of things I should try though, and so little time..
BackBlast
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| Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! |
Thu, 13 March 2003 08:53 |
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i personally find the PP very playable, and the fact that i can ruin the game for my neigbour from year 1.. heye, its great just for that LOL!
Aragh!Report message to a moderator
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| Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! |
Fri, 14 March 2003 01:57 |
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Greetings all,
First off I would like to thank Backblastus for keeping my mind occupied for quite some time. We have both learned a lot from each other and I have actually got some "experience" now to back up my posts here on the forrum. Now onto the post.
First off I would like to point out that the -f PP is a very powerfull monster in which to work. Like most -f they require your full attention to not only get them to work, but to also push them to their limits. Keep in mind that packets are not the only thing you carry. Just like all other races you also have basic terraforming. This does not mean you should packet your own planets. I mean if you are playing a -f and you decide you want to permaform you entire empire and you lift all your colonists into orbit and kill your colonies... you litterally have to wait 3 more years for the pop to come back and you also loose those three years of growth. Just because you have "free Terraforming" with your packets you still need to keep in mind that you are NOT a CA.
Knowing this another thing to keep in mind is that you should not EVER take ALL your minerals in your empire and launch EVERYTHING at one target. It will kill the planet, it will kill any chances of building a large fleet, but if you want to win the game, manage the minerals you have. Build Iron Heavy ships to take out enemy ships at long range (you won't need the Iron as you have Grav immune in this case). PP is a nice race to try long range tactics and anti-chaff designs. Beams are still good but try to figure out what you plan to do with all that iron and build around that.
One of the nice things about a PP is the fact that you can get a Mass Driver around ANY planet at or below 200 resources capable of flinging packets at warp nine. Also keep in mind these mass drivers are capable of tossing packets at 5 resources a piece. At most your "terraforming" efforts will only cost you 20 resources at the most. Sounds nice right? Keep in mind though that 20 resources al
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"Attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."- Sun TzuReport message to a moderator
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| Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! |
Thu, 03 April 2003 02:42 |
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| Robert |
 | Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany | |
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I like to hear I am not the only one who does not believe PP is unplayable or just very weak.
I have some more comments here...
First of all the by far most important feature is the terraforming, but I see it a little bit different then
some others...
So it is less expensive than normal terraforming, bit there
are still the costs for the minerals... I think the real
advantage is that you can knock the yellows green BEFORE
you colonize the planet!
That makes PP perfect for a 1 immune 2 narrow hab scheme and
HP econ (or hybrid).
These race usually have problems to get yellows to work with
their 1/2500 pop efficiency, which is the main drawback IMHO.
Also I really like the 1 immune 2 narrow, and this is usually
not good for HPs, as you got lots of yellows to work up later.
But it makes PERFECT sense for PP!
First of all you get some really fat greens in the beginning,
and PP is (with the possible exception of a JoaT) the race which
is best able to find them quickly.
Second you are (with the sure exception of CA) best able to
terraform the many good yellows (most yellows can become 100%
worlds later!) to greens with only few packets before you
colonize them.
Third of all the immune-narrow schemes make your de-terraforming
ability more dangerous to enemies, as you always terraform the
planet towards your habs (and for immunes to the edges). If you
got centered habs, and your enemy also, your packets are useless.
But if you got one immune and the others _very_ shifted, all
3 minerals can de-terraform, and for every enemy you will find
a way to render the planet red.
So IMHO the PP is best used in a 1 immune 2 narrow scheme as HP!
note: I like to take temp immune, as i will terraform temp with
boranium, and i when i attack i dont want to attack with ironium
so they can catch it and build arms with it. also IF other races
play with 1 immunity, they usually chose grav, and you want to
use the de-terraforming ability later, so dont chose grav immune
also! Boranium is
...
2b v !2b -> ?Report message to a moderator
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| Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! |
Fri, 04 April 2003 01:11 |
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| zoid |
 | Ensign |
Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA | |
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Good post, Robert. PP has never been a PRT I've been enthusiastic about trying, but this is certainly interesting reading. There was one thing that confused me, though.
| Robert wrote on Wed, 02 April 2003 23:42 |
Temp immune, grav and rad 30 wide 4 from edge,
gives 1/10, but you will have LOTS of good yellows.
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This must be written wrong. Later you spoke of 1 immune and 2 narrow fields, but HERE I interpret it as 1 immune and two very wide habs, which should make for "virtually all planets will be habitable" at the very least (and surely you don't have that many RW points for hab with everything else you have). Can you rewrite it that so I understand? Or am I just missing something?
I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math?  Ummm, sure!  I do FREESTYLE math.Report message to a moderator
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