Home » Primary Racial Traits » PP » to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG!
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| Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! |
Sun, 09 March 2003 03:49   |
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 BackBlast |
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Messages: 215
Registered: February 2003
Location: A Rock | |
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| yucaf wrote on Fri, 07 March 2003 22:39 |
One thing for sure, PP is an expensive race in the Wizard. Is it worth it? Do you dominate it? Let us know!
Thanks,
YucaF
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Alright, I'll bite. I posted my idea for a WM race and so far it has done well. I've played it in a couple of duels and it has performed well for me (small, normal, further). I didn't hit 25k resources, but 17k I did have wasn't bad at all, I had pretty much absorbed all the room I could in the universe without stomping on too many enemy worlds so far... heh. Shortly though... 
First off, give up the notion that a PP is suppose to sit back and launch packets at its foes. Packets can be used, but usually as a support to a well coordinated attack. What is the point in taking territory you don't intend to use? Over extension is bad. So lets discuss how to build a race that could work. This will yet again be another untested but well thought out design (including testbeds, and bouncing ideas off Stalwart's head). 
PRT: PP
LRT: IFE, NRSE, ISB, OBRM
Hab: 1/6 Grav immune 19% GR
Swing either rad or temp widish, get it out of the middle (there are reasons for this to follow).
Econ: -F (5/25/5 no G box)
Mines: 12/3/7-8 (possibly go 10/3/7-8 if you really want more hab)
Tech: Energy, Weapons, Construction cheap. Rest expensive.
Now, how to operate this delicate beast. First you must understand the power of packets other than offensive possibilities. Packets can be used for terraforming. People living on the world are irrelevant, defences on the world are irrelevant, speed is irrelevant. Only the size of uncaught minerals are relevant. There are 2 possible types of terraforming. I will dub normal terraforming, terraforming. And modifying base values permaforming. In general 100kt of minerals has a 50% chance of terraforming, it also seems to have 5% of permaforming the world (by 1%). So, it will cost on average 200kt of a mineral to terraform a world, which in turn costs you 15 resources. There is potential here,
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| Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! |
Thu, 13 March 2003 08:53 |
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i personally find the PP very playable, and the fact that i can ruin the game for my neigbour from year 1.. heye, its great just for that LOL!
Aragh!Report message to a moderator
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| Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! |
Fri, 14 March 2003 01:57 |
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Greetings all,
First off I would like to thank Backblastus for keeping my mind occupied for quite some time. We have both learned a lot from each other and I have actually got some "experience" now to back up my posts here on the forrum. Now onto the post.
First off I would like to point out that the -f PP is a very powerfull monster in which to work. Like most -f they require your full attention to not only get them to work, but to also push them to their limits. Keep in mind that packets are not the only thing you carry. Just like all other races you also have basic terraforming. This does not mean you should packet your own planets. I mean if you are playing a -f and you decide you want to permaform you entire empire and you lift all your colonists into orbit and kill your colonies... you litterally have to wait 3 more years for the pop to come back and you also loose those three years of growth. Just because you have "free Terraforming" with your packets you still need to keep in mind that you are NOT a CA.
Knowing this another thing to keep in mind is that you should not EVER take ALL your minerals in your empire and launch EVERYTHING at one target. It will kill the planet, it will kill any chances of building a large fleet, but if you want to win the game, manage the minerals you have. Build Iron Heavy ships to take out enemy ships at long range (you won't need the Iron as you have Grav immune in this case). PP is a nice race to try long range tactics and anti-chaff designs. Beams are still good but try to figure out what you plan to do with all that iron and build around that.
One of the nice things about a PP is the fact that you can get a Mass Driver around ANY planet at or below 200 resources capable of flinging packets at warp nine. Also keep in mind these mass drivers are capable of tossing packets at 5 resources a piece. At most your "terraforming" efforts will only cost you 20 resources at the most. Sounds nice right? Keep in mind though that 20 resources al
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"Attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."- Sun TzuReport message to a moderator
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| Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! |
Thu, 03 April 2003 02:42 |
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| Robert |
 | Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany | |
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I like to hear I am not the only one who does not believe PP is unplayable or just very weak.
I have some more comments here...
First of all the by far most important feature is the terraforming, but I see it a little bit different then
some others...
So it is less expensive than normal terraforming, bit there
are still the costs for the minerals... I think the real
advantage is that you can knock the yellows green BEFORE
you colonize the planet!
That makes PP perfect for a 1 immune 2 narrow hab scheme and
HP econ (or hybrid).
These race usually have problems to get yellows to work with
their 1/2500 pop efficiency, which is the main drawback IMHO.
Also I really like the 1 immune 2 narrow, and this is usually
not good for HPs, as you got lots of yellows to work up later.
But it makes PERFECT sense for PP!
First of all you get some really fat greens in the beginning,
and PP is (with the possible exception of a JoaT) the race which
is best able to find them quickly.
Second you are (with the sure exception of CA) best able to
terraform the many good yellows (most yellows can become 100%
worlds later!) to greens with only few packets before you
colonize them.
Third of all the immune-narrow schemes make your de-terraforming
ability more dangerous to enemies, as you always terraform the
planet towards your habs (and for immunes to the edges). If you
got centered habs, and your enemy also, your packets are useless.
But if you got one immune and the others _very_ shifted, all
3 minerals can de-terraform, and for every enemy you will find
a way to render the planet red.
So IMHO the PP is best used in a 1 immune 2 narrow scheme as HP!
note: I like to take temp immune, as i will terraform temp with
boranium, and i when i attack i dont want to attack with ironium
so they can catch it and build arms with it. also IF other races
play with 1 immunity, they usually chose grav, and you want to
use the de-terraforming ability later, so dont chose grav immune
also! Boranium is your weapon, and En-tech you need for de-terraforming!
Next Issue:
If you lile diplomacy, PP is nice. If you dont like to talk to
people, PP is bad.
First thing:
PP need minerals, so I usually dont take OBRM, so I can remote
mine...
PP dont get (many) points for NAS, so I usually dont take it.
That means you have a lot to offer for your neighbours:
Remote Miners and Pen-Scanns... Most races dont have them
and will like to exchange something for it...
Next thing:
You are able to scout a huge amount of space very early, which
gives you valuable information. This information is also very
nice to have for your neighbours. You find them early, talk to
them early, and offer a map of their space in year 4-5. They
dont need to scout and dont need to waste early resources on
scouts.
One more important thing you can offer them... Information.
Also you are the one who has a complete map file most of the
time and can best estimate strenght of each race, and without
public scores everybody will like to know the who-is-who...
You have even more to offer:
If they have the same habs in one field, you can also terraform
planets for them! And knock their yellows green...
And one more thing: you probably have en cheap and can trade
one field of research they most likely dont have cheap...
So if you like to talk, you have much to offer:
- remote miners
- penscanners
- early scouting
- complete map
- terraforming service
- trade en-technology
With this list you make a very valuable ally!
Next thing: They fear you...
Only newbies fear you! Ok, it depends on the distance between
your second world and your neighbour's homeworld. So if you play
in small universes, they might fear you for reason. But in
medium universes (where I believe my race is played best) they
are far enough that it is not efficient or likely you can take
out their homeworld early.
Try to convince them you are no threat, tell them to use
Starscalc and check what you need to kill the planet early,
in fact the single big packet is NO threat. They can easily
check with Starscalc, and even more: offer them en-tech, so
they can upgrade their defenses and can defend even better.
Tell them they are safe when they got their defenses up, as
packets become less painful then, and trade en-tech to them
so they can build MDs on their stations to defend them.
Dont tell them that the real power comes from terraforming later
and defenses are useless...
So they feel threatened in the beginning, and once they feel safe
behind their defs and MDs, you know they become vulnerable
because you gathered so much boranium...
Anyway... PP diplomacy is very interesting...
Lets say someghing about the race design...
I tried some things and here is my current version of the PP:
PRT: PP
(obviously)
LRT: IFE NRSE LSP RS
(IFE and NRSE is standard, LSP is ok for HP scheme,
need the points, RS is great as you will be wanting good en-tech
no NAS because it does not give points and you want to trade
penscanns later, and no OBRM because you need the miners)
Temp immune, grav and rad 30 wide 4 from edge,
gives 1/10, but you will have LOTS of good yellows.
17% growth is ok for HPs, and remember you will have
better growth than other because of the immune/narrow
hab schemes and pre-terraforming! so 17% is good for
this scheme!
1/2500 pop effeciency, 15/7/21 facs and 10/3/17 mines.
cost 7 is expensive, but I like my HPs get the planets
up more quickly. g-box checked.
gives 3500K per planet, not much for a HP, but you will
have lots of close to 100% planets!
mines are ok, and you can live without remotes for a while.
When you start attacking you will need the remotes.
tech:
2 cheap 4 expensive, not checked.
you can chose to take en and wp cheap,
or en cheap, weap and const normal, or
run for nubians with en cheap and const cheap.
in fact i like en and weap normal, and con cheap.
gives you remotes early, privateers early,
and if you find nice neighbours you get nubians quickly.
one more thing:
leave 45 points to FACS!
that means you start with 10 factories on your 1st homeworld,
5 on your second homeworld and 9 more by points.
with factory-efficiency of 15 and cost of 7 you will get both
planets working REALLY fast. so if you need to fight early,
you can.
also the 1 immune 2 narrow makes i VERY likely the second planet
is VERY good for you, likely more than 80%.
Now go out, find good planets, find your neighbour and
start to bomb him with emails and convince him to be your
friend
This race is great fun! It does not have the econ power of
CAs, JoaTs or ITs, but I think PP is an economic race and
comes CLOSE behing them...
I hope this helps...
Robert
2b v !2b -> ?Report message to a moderator
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| Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! |
Fri, 04 April 2003 01:11 |
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| zoid |
 | Ensign |
Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA | |
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Good post, Robert. PP has never been a PRT I've been enthusiastic about trying, but this is certainly interesting reading. There was one thing that confused me, though.
| Robert wrote on Wed, 02 April 2003 23:42 |
Temp immune, grav and rad 30 wide 4 from edge,
gives 1/10, but you will have LOTS of good yellows.
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This must be written wrong. Later you spoke of 1 immune and 2 narrow fields, but HERE I interpret it as 1 immune and two very wide habs, which should make for "virtually all planets will be habitable" at the very least (and surely you don't have that many RW points for hab with everything else you have). Can you rewrite it that so I understand? Or am I just missing something?
I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math?  Ummm, sure!  I do FREESTYLE math.Report message to a moderator
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