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| CA design... |
Tue, 12 August 2008 19:47  |
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 magic9mushroom |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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Is the following much use?
CA
IFE, TT, NRSE, OBRM, NAS
0.55 - 1.80, -80 - 80, 29 - 71
1/12 (1/5 with TT 7, 1/1 with TT 30)
16%
1/2500
15/7/25/3
14/3/18
Bio cheap, rest expensive.
I know 1 less Grav or Temp, or 2 less Rad, still has everything at TT30, but I thought having higher values was a good thing.
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| Re: CA design... |
Thu, 14 August 2008 05:00  |
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| magic9mushroom |
| Commander |
Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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| iztok made a good point on Thu, 14 August 2008 03:16 |
Hi!
The real strength of a CA is in its speed of developing planets: every planet they land on is instantly terraformed to the max the current terra tech allows. At TT-20 30% of all planets are breeders. With TT-30 60% of all planeta are breeders, that will for free grow your pop at close to max growth rate.
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Certainly.
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Choosing a HP econ goes against that strenght, that insane speed the CA can grow it's economy. I have no doubt it would work. Virtually anything would work with the bio-cheap & TT CA. The HP is IMO just too "antithematic". With it you'd get just a "regular" monster  instead if the game-breaking TT_CA_monster_from_hell     .
BR, Iztok
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I object to that. It's the same argument as with HE. Because I have the CA planet values I can thus afford to put my growth rate lower, at 16%, and thereby get the insane factories and mines that give a good HP. And cheap bio too.
Also, could I see what you call the TT CA monster out of hell? I doubt it's an HP, and I was specifically designing an HP, not an HG.
...
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| Re: CA design... |
Thu, 14 August 2008 13:26 |
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| iztok |
| Commander |
Messages: 1206
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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| magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 11:00 |
Because I have the CA planet values...
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You don't have YET, and that's the differrence. You will have, IF you'll survive. But in first 30 turns you'll have just a slow, pretty standard HP, and very likely a gang-up on you, when your neighbours get a clue what race you're playing.
| Quote: |
Also, could I see what you call the TT CA monster out of hell? I doubt it's an HP.
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It isn't. It's a 19% HG with bio nad weapons cheap, rest expensive. It works with or without factories, playing as a -f on a germ-poor planets, and uses the resources from free pop growth on freely terraformed big greens that pop-up with each level of terra. The more bio, the more free resources. In CA case I see factories just as a help to get more resources from small greens. In case of HP they are almost an obstacle, that cost resources, and germ, and MM to transport that germ, and lots of "nursing" before they start making returns. And a fleet with 150 LBUs-74 wipes those hard-earned factories through the best defense in a blink of an eye. 
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Thu, 14 August 2008 19:04] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: CA design... |
Fri, 15 August 2008 07:02 |
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| magic9mushroom |
| Commander |
Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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So something like
CA
TT, ISB, NRSE, OBRM, NAS
middle 50 for each, 1/6 total
19%
1/1000
11/9/13/4g
10/3/14
Weap, bio cheap
would be good, you think?
CA -fs you just get TT, ISB, IFE and a couple of others, and decent hab, and tech, right?
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| Re: CA design... |
Fri, 15 August 2008 11:40 |
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| magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 15 August 2008 07:02 |
So something like
CA
TT, ISB, NRSE, OBRM, NAS
middle 50 for each, 1/6 total
19%
1/1000
11/9/13/4g
10/3/14
Weap, bio cheap
would be good, you think?
CA -fs you just get TT, ISB, IFE and a couple of others, and decent hab, and tech, right?
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Not a bad effort but:
1. You need a fast start so, even tho it costs 101-102 RW, IFE is worth it (for the FM).
2. You can afford to take narrower habs
3. if no ally you will need cheap Con
4. You can balance the cheap Con by taking Bio exp - you won't research Bio beyond level 7 until you have at least IMO Weap 24, En 18?, Con 13, Prop 12 & Elec 11 so your econ should be huge by then & the more expensive Bio won't look so tough.
5. Germ usually becomes a severe limitation in the endgame so you better tick the G Box or increase mining efficiency by a point.
Try this (RS costs 19 RW with 7 LRTs but IMO it's worth it - some might disagree):
IFE,TT,ISB,NRSE,OBRM,NAS,RS
0.25-1.92, (136)-88, 62-86 1/10
19%
1/1000, 12/9/14, GBox, 10/3/13
Weap,Con cheap, else exp. No start at 3.
Note also that, if you can find a reliable ally with TT, you do not need it yourself since you can transfer OAs to your ally & they can terraform your planets to the full extent of your ALLY'S tech.
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| Re: CA design... |
Tue, 19 August 2008 05:49 |
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| magic9mushroom wrote on Tue, 19 August 2008 01:02 |
@Alex: Why TT then if you're not going to research bio?
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I would research Bio but not before I've got good fighting techs. While these are being researched you will have almost the equivalent of TT15 (15/15/11 anyway). By the time you've got this done you should have a very big econ & researching expensive Bio will be viable fot TT20 etc.
Joseph feels that you should have cheap Bio & I respect his views but IMO cheap Con is more important. If you can manage cheap Con, std Bio I wouldn't argue.
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| Re: CA design... |
Tue, 19 August 2008 10:19 |
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| joseph |
 | Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 440
Registered: May 2003
Location: Bristol | |
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As with so much else in Stars it comes down to choices (Stars is such a finely balanced game).
I would go cheap Bio AND research Bio to TT15 or TT20 before researching con13
Because the improvements to my pop growth (and thus econ) at each stage TT10, TT15 and TT20 are so useful.
With my then larger econ and bigger planets I could then research C13.
By contrast Alex would like to hit C13 quickly as this is a definate break point in attacking tech research.
There are no points whatsoever wasted (from an attacking point of view) getting Bio AND his con costs about 1/3 to research compared to my Con.
In a worst case senario my CA starting next to his and he quessing my race setup and research route.
He could build 30+ poor design Jihad Bbs and send them in 3 attack groups with bombers etc.
I would be losing a couple of worlds a year and be 2 years away from c13 and might be forced to fight with cruisers.
Even when I had Bbs I would be signifcantly behind in ships.
In a best case senario he would spend time researching the techs to make good ships (P11 or 12 and En10).
This would give me time for my better econ to help close the gap - I would be likely to have to face his ships with en6 and p9 Bbs.
Both races would do well against non-CA races - Alex would hurt them quickly and then maintain the space/resources advantage.
Mine would out preform them and grow more in a smaller space then later use the resource advantage to crush them.
A 3rd option would be to find the points for BOTH cheap con and bio.
Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"Report message to a moderator
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