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scanning packet launchers

Mon, 11 August 2008 15:12

knightpraetor

Chief Warrant Officer 1

Messages: 154
Registered: October 2006

Is this possible?

last turn I got hit by a packet out of nowhere...all my pen scans show nearby planets having no launcher

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Mon, 11 August 2008 16:01

Micha

Commander

Duel Club Champion 2005

Duel Club Champion 2004

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1

knightpraetor wrote on Mon, 11 August 2008 21:12

Is this possible?

last turn I got hit by a packet out of nowhere...all my pen scans show nearby planets having no launcher

You are WM and can see all SB designs? If not, don't trust your penscans.

Also remember a packet can come from a pretty far distance. At warp13 it can travel (13*13)/2=84.5ly.

mch

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Tue, 12 August 2008 06:41

magic9mushroom

Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008

Well, you can trust your penscans if you've seen all their hulls so they all appear to you.

UNLESS... (and this applies if you're WM too)

they built a packet launcher and a packet after it in the same turn. Easiest for PP because packet launchers don't cost as much.

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Tue, 12 August 2008 08:36

joseph

Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 440
Registered: May 2003
Location: Bristol

Im fairly sure you cant put a packet into the queue UNLESS there is a packet launcher at the world.
Similarly setting speed and destination cant be done until the launcher is there.

Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Tue, 12 August 2008 10:57

Micha

Commander

Duel Club Champion 2005

Duel Club Champion 2004

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1

magic9mushroom wrote on Tue, 12 August 2008 12:41

Well, you can trust your penscans if you've seen all their hulls so they all appear to you.

For ships not true. Wink

But ok, IIRC SBs indeed turn immediately to "unknown" when changed and not pinged.

Quote:

UNLESS... (and this applies if you're WM too)

they built a packet launcher and a packet after it in the same turn. Easiest for PP because packet launchers don't cost as much.

You mean launches the packet from an SB with a driver and in the same turn immediately "downgrades" to no driver. Thought of that as well but doesn't make much sense. A driver is expensive and it's just a 1*slot, nothing worth to replace it (unless replaced by a gate). Well, it would be worth it if you wanted to hide the planet where the packet came from ... but can't see much reasons for that ...

mch

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Tue, 12 August 2008 12:02

LEit

Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT

When in your turn did it hit?
If it hit early, it was not from nearby, and could have been out of range of your scanners last year, remember SS packets are cloaked (at least the rules say that).
Here is the Order of Events thread: http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=msg&th=238 6&rid=227&S=0d7055dcb728bbbe501eaee9a473dd12

Also, if some one has an empty base (a fairly common design), it will show up the same as an unknown design (as long as they leave the name the same as the hull name).

And... the base could be cloaked, even a little cloaking on a base can help, because it takes pen scanners and those ranges are much more limited then space scanners.

- LEit

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Tue, 12 August 2008 12:23

Micha

Commander

Duel Club Champion 2005

Duel Club Champion 2004

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1

LEit wrote on Tue, 12 August 2008 18:02

When in your turn did it hit?
If it hit early, it was not from nearby, and could have been out of range of your scanners last year, remember SS packets are cloaked (at least the rules say that).

Vaguely remembered something like that as well, though did a quick search on the newsgroup and found a post from Varn that SS packets are not cloaked ... (remembering Varn as a regular poster I believed him)

mch

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Tue, 12 August 2008 12:26

vonKreedon

Lieutenant

Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA

LEit wrote on Tue, 12 August 2008 09:02

<SNIP> remember SS packets are cloaked (at least the rules say that).</SNIP>

Where do you see this? I can't find it in the Help, though that is nearly meaningless, but I also never noticed this in game play.

[Updated on: Tue, 12 August 2008 12:26]

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Tue, 12 August 2008 13:04

knightpraetor

Chief Warrant Officer 1

Messages: 154
Registered: October 2006

so basically..pen scans don't reveal starbases on their own? you have to have at least seen the starbase before to be able to detect what kind of starbase is at an enemy planet

I'm very confused because people are acting as if you can actually click on the other player's starbase and pop up its model like you do for enemy ship clases.

Can you?

i thought all you could tell were the 3 dots when in normal map mode...One of which is starbase, and the other is for packet launcher..i didn't see packet launchers listed so i assumed i was safe..

however, i've never been able to see an enemy starbase design before...at best..if i scout a new starbase..the only place i actually see new designs are in the F4 screen.

However, that doesn't allow me to tell which starbases on the map are of what design..

i get the feeling there must be some option i'm missing..but then i didn't know how to move withint 1 ly of a planet till last game either...live and learn i guess

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Tue, 12 August 2008 16:19

Micha

Commander

Duel Club Champion 2005

Duel Club Champion 2004

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1

Okay ... that explains a lot ...

Click on a planet with SB (enemy or your own, doesn't matter), check the planet summary. Next to "Population: xxx" you see a yellow sign looking like this � and if you click on it with the left mouse button you will see the SB design.

If you are not WM of haven't gotten a battle with that kind of SB design before it will be blank.

mch

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Tue, 12 August 2008 18:55

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

Micha wrote on Tue, 12 August 2008 16:57

magic9mushroom wrote on Tue, 12 August 2008 12:41

Well, you can trust your penscans if you've seen all their hulls so they all appear to you.

For ships not true. Wink

But ok, IIRC SBs indeed turn immediately to "unknown" when changed and not pinged.

IIRC unknown SBs can masquerade as known designs same as ships can. Not against a WM, of course, unless cloaking them can fool WM scanners. Sherlock

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Tue, 12 August 2008 19:29

magic9mushroom

Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008

What? You can make ships appear as other ships? How?

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Wed, 13 August 2008 08:35

iztok

Commander

Messages: 1206
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe

Hi!

Quote:

You can make ships appear as other ships? How?

You can always edit a ship design with 0 existing ships. So when you lose/scrap all ships of that design, you can re-design it, but others non-WMs will see the old design until they actually see it on a battle board. The weight will be acurate though, so a carefull observer will be able to notice that "manipulation". AFAIK it works only with the same hull type.

BR, Iztok

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Thu, 14 August 2008 05:06

magic9mushroom

Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008

That's a bug, right? Why isn't it in the Bugs list? I mean, it doesn't make any sense in military terms that a new ship class would be mistaken for an old one.

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Thu, 14 August 2008 05:25

Micha

Commander

Duel Club Champion 2005

Duel Club Champion 2004

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1

magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 11:06

That's a bug, right? Why isn't it in the Bugs list? I mean, it doesn't make any sense in military terms that a new ship class would be mistaken for an old one.

It's a feature! Smile

A tactic!

And no ... it's not in the list.

mch

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Thu, 14 August 2008 06:18

magic9mushroom

Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008

Well, why the hell not? It's more of a bug than split fleet dodge, which is in there!

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Thu, 14 August 2008 08:12

Micha

Commander

Duel Club Champion 2005

Duel Club Champion 2004

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1

magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 12:18

Well, why the hell not? It's more of a bug than split fleet dodge, which is in there!

The Known Bug list dates back ... what? 10 years? James McGuigan put it up on www.starsfaq.com but as many others he left the Stars! community at some point, people come and go. After that updates were sporadic to none, till it got here on the sah forum.

Now it is easier to maintain since it's less dependent on the person to edit it (of course still dependent on Ron to host it), but nobody has made it their "job" to hunt down and list all the bugs discoverd in the mean while ...

mch

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Thu, 14 August 2008 08:37

magic9mushroom

Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008

Can we update it then, maybe? I can't believe this existed and I didn't know about it! This is almost as bad as Pop Steal! Shocked 3

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Thu, 14 August 2008 08:46

Micha

Commander

Duel Club Champion 2005

Duel Club Champion 2004

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1

magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 14:37

Can we update it then, maybe?

I'll add it to my "to do" list. Wink

Quote:

I can't believe this existed and I didn't know about it!

No doubt you'll come across many other surprises! Very Happy

Quote:

This is almost as bad as Pop Steal!

No it isn't. This isn't as easy to pull of as you think. A good emperor doesn't let himself fooled by this small trick.

mch

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Thu, 21 August 2008 10:56

Altruist

Commander

Messages: 1068
Registered: August 2005
Location: Berlin

Micha wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 11:25

It's a feature! :) A tactic! :twisted:

And no ... it's not in the list.
mch

I agree with micha: a tactic, not a bug.

magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 14 August 2008 11:06

That's a bug, right? Why isn't it in the Bugs list? I mean, it doesn't make any sense in military terms that a new ship class would be mistaken for an old one.

Remember that it works only with the same hulls. So it's no new ship class but the same class with modified equipment. And if we really care about it... it's absolutely understandable that such a ship can't be correctly identified before seeing the differences close up in combat.

Ths I wouldn't spam the bug-section with this feature.

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Fri, 22 August 2008 20:02

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

Altruist wrote on Thu, 21 August 2008 16:56

It is a player-exploitable bug, of the same class as chaff, i.e. its effect isn't too negative and indeed adds "depth" to the game. Twisted Evil

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Mon, 01 September 2008 08:52

magic9mushroom

Commander

Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008

Still a bug that should be in there.

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Wed, 01 October 2008 12:52

Deuce

Senior Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 94
Registered: June 2003

Am I reading this right that I could build some Jihad cruisers, attack, get them all killed, edit the design to Armageddon cruisers, and my opponent would still see the jihad design when he clicked them in space? (before he fights them again that is)

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Re: scanning packet launchers

Wed, 01 October 2008 14:06

skoormit

Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama

Deuce wrote on Wed, 01 October 2008 11:52

Yes, you are reading that correctly. The only exception is if your opponent is a WM, in which case he will always see the correct design.

The correct fleet mass will always show in the fleet summary pane.

What we need's a few good taters.

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