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Hard Rocks Tue, 29 July 2008 11:57 Go to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
Game name: Hard Rocks

Description: What happens if you can't mine your inhabited worlds? You have to build lots of remote miners, that's what. When the mineral side of your economy becomes very expensive to develop, you must adapt different strategies. Let's see who can adapt the best.

# Players: 8
Skill level: intermediate or better.

Universe: Medium. Density normal. Average # planets per player = 36.

Other Game settings: Positions = Distant, ABBS

PRTs:
AR = NOT ALLOWED
CA (must leave 150 RW points set to defences)
IT (must leave 100 RW points set to defences)
JOAT (must leave 50 RW points set to defences)
Any other (no penalty)

VC: Exceeds second place score by 100%, or by majority agreement among active players. At least 50 years must pass.

Diplomacy: No contact whatsoever allowed between players. Managing the miners will be time-consuming enough. Let's keep this game tactical/strategical.

Special Rule: All races must have mine settings set to worst possible (5/15/5).

Cheats/Bugs: chaff and split fleet allowed. Everything else disallowed.

Gen Schedule:
Daily or MTWTF if anyone has a problem with weekends. After 2420 any request to slow down to 50 hours max or MWF will be granted.

PLEASE DO NOT join this game if you are likely to drop when things get tough. With all the remote mining, this game will take a little more management time. Be prepared for that.


Player List
1 skoormit
2 beanspoon
3 Dashiva
4 cyph34r
5 stranger
6 Martin
7 Magic
8 Alter Ego

Waiting List / 2nd Game
1 GreyMatter

Send your race file to me (use the email button below). If you put a password on your race file let me know what it is. If someone would like to be a non-playing third party to submit the game files to autohost, that's fine.

CORRUPT RACE FILES
If you create a race file & then change your race name you will probably corrupt it (it's a bug) so the easiest thing to do is either don't change the race name or write down the design & recreate the race file. Another way that works is to change the name one character at a time, re-saving the file each time.


[Updated on: Sat, 09 August 2008 12:31]




What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Hard Rocks Tue, 29 July 2008 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stranger is currently offline stranger

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 16
Registered: November 2003
Location: Oregon, USA
Why no contact between players? I like the idea of a weird mining rule, but I'm a huge sucker for diplomacy.

Do you want to actually ban mines? Or just make people live with the worst possible settings? Because I suspect (not necessarily a bad thing) that invading worlds just to get the free mines might become a major tactic.

--Mr. Strange

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Re: Hard Rocks Tue, 29 July 2008 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
stranger wrote on Tue, 29 July 2008 11:07

Why no contact between players? I like the idea of a weird mining rule, but I'm a huge sucker for diplomacy.

Do you want to actually ban mines? Or just make people live with the worst possible settings? Because I suspect (not necessarily a bad thing) that invading worlds just to get the free mines might become a major tactic.

--Mr. Strange


Good questions!

No contact between players for a couple reasons. First, I really don't want players to have to put time into diplomacy when they will be putting time into managing their mining operations. Second, I'd rather take diplomatic skill out of the equation and play a pure strategic/tactical game.

No, planetary mines are not banned. If you want to build them at these settings, go ahead. You are correct that planetary mines may become valuable commodities.



What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Hard Rocks Tue, 29 July 2008 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT
I was considering joining until the no diplomacy rule...

With those mine settings I'd never build any mines execpt on the home world, and probably not then till the MCs were reduced below 30 by remote miners. There will be a lot of colonies picked up and recolonized.

One of the next biggest problems in this game besides digging up the minerals is going to be moving them around. ITs will have a big advantage there, as well as being able to gate the miners as needed. You may want to penalize ITs too.



- LEit

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Re: Hard Rocks Tue, 29 July 2008 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
LEit wrote on Tue, 29 July 2008 12:43

I was considering joining until the no diplomacy rule...

With those mine settings I'd never build any mines execpt on the home world, and probably not then till the MCs were reduced below 30 by remote miners. There will be a lot of colonies picked up and recolonized.

One of the next biggest problems in this game besides digging up the minerals is going to be moving them around. ITs will have a big advantage there, as well as being able to gate the miners as needed. You may want to penalize ITs too.


That's a good point. ITs have that advantage in every game they play. Of course, in many games IT don't build remote miners (like any other race), so the difference is that in this game that particular advantage will be well utilized. Still, I feel like IT is well balanced without having to penalize them. If enough people feel like IT is a no-brainer in this game unless that PRT is penalized, I'll consider just banning it rather than penalizing.

As for the no diplomacy rule keeping you away, please consider it anyway. I actually enjoy the diplomatic aspect of the game very much, but I'd like for just one game to not have to spend hours and hours on emails when I'm going to have so many interesting strategic/tactical decisions to make.


[Updated on: Tue, 29 July 2008 14:02]




What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Hard Rocks Tue, 29 July 2008 21:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 661
Registered: May 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
skoormit wrote on Tue, 29 July 2008 14:02

As for the no diplomacy rule keeping you away, please consider it anyway. I actually enjoy the diplomatic aspect of the game very much, but I'd like for just one game to not have to spend hours and hours on emails when I'm going to have so many interesting strategic/tactical decisions to make.


Why don't you consider limited diplomacy? There appears to be 2 interested players who are bawking at the no diplomacy thing & there are a lot of new games looking for participants. So many that my Mauryan Campaign game is on the backburner waiting for a slower time.

Maybe you could allow a maximum of one ally & no other agreements (everyone other than the ally must be set to "enemy").

BTW If you intend to host the game you will at least need a setup person &, since you will have the up/download PWs, you can't be privy to race PWs.



[Updated on: Tue, 29 July 2008 22:00]

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Re: Hard Rocks Tue, 29 July 2008 23:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
AlexTheGreat wrote on Tue, 29 July 2008 20:59


Why don't you consider limited diplomacy? There appears to be 2 interested players who are bawking at the no diplomacy thing & there are a lot of new games looking for participants. So many that my Mauryan Campaign game is on the backburner waiting for a slower time.

Maybe you could allow a maximum of one ally & no other agreements (everyone other than the ally must be set to "enemy").




Thanks, but I'll stick with no diplomacy. As you say, there are plenty of games for people to choose from if they prefer diplomatic games.



What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Hard Rocks Wed, 30 July 2008 04:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adacore is currently offline Adacore

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 156
Registered: February 2005
Location: Shanghai
I'm not going to play this one, but if I were IT is definitely the way I'd go. Maybe even go totally nuts and take a -fm IT. But that's probably a little too crazy...

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Re: Hard Rocks Wed, 30 July 2008 05:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Adacore wrote on Wed, 30 July 2008 10:52

I'm not going to play this one, but if I were IT is definitely the way I'd go. Maybe even go totally nuts and take a -fm IT. But that's probably a little too crazy...

That reminds me of a friend who tried a -fm ... SD! PAIN! Smile
Especially ship design slots were a problem, let's say 3 slots for MLs and at least one for remote miners ...

mch

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Re: Hard Rocks Wed, 30 July 2008 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
beanspoon is currently offline beanspoon

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 182
Registered: June 2008
We I'm not fussed about the no diplomacy thing! Just like playing against AI. Count me in.

Of course this will put the players in a dilemna: do you colonise a planet, or mine it? A tough decision in such a universe.



The goat whats YOU.

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Re: Hard Rocks Wed, 30 July 2008 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cyph34r is currently offline cyph34r

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class

Messages: 57
Registered: January 2007
I'm interested.

Re: no diplomacy, I don't care either way.

Re: IT, I think they need to be penalized in some way, or banned.

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Re: Hard Rocks Thu, 31 July 2008 11:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT
-fm is also a good idea, it's the race I'd designed for this game.

You're forced to be -m, so to be +f you need lots of germ and where do you get that? also, you'll have more resources (once you manage to build factories) but what to spend them on? -f is a decent balance to the -m I'd think. The two games where I got to the late game, I stopped building factories to save on germ, and the -m just enforces that early.

Everyone can gate miners if they spend the RW points on ARM, and resources to get to con 15. But ITs can gate miners and avoid that cost. It increases the cost of miners slightly, but only really early and late game. With con 5 and @3 elec, an IT could start building Robo-Miners which are cheaper per mine then the Robo-Midget Miners. And the Robo-Maxi-Miner is not far away at con 7 elec 4.



- LEit

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Re: Hard Rocks Thu, 31 July 2008 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT
beanspoon wrote on Wed, 30 July 2008 18:27

Of course this will put the players in a dilemna: do you colonise a planet, or mine it?

It's not really a tough decision, if you've got enough miners to strip it quickly, mine it first and then colonize. If you don't have enough miners, colonize, and when the miners can come around, abandon it for a few years and recolonize.

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, and everyone may already know this, but if you remote mine a home world the mineral concentrations can get below 30. The floor of 30 only applies when the world is occupied, which is why ARs can do so well.



- LEit

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Re: Hard Rocks Fri, 01 August 2008 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
-fm would certainly give you more early resources. Building factories when you have to remote mine for all your germanium is a tough row to hoe. The question, as always, is if you can catapult to a victory before the more productive races get their factories online.


What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Hard Rocks Fri, 01 August 2008 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dashiva is currently offline Dashiva

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 61
Registered: April 2007
Location: Russia, Europe

I want to join

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Re: Hard Rocks Fri, 01 August 2008 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
Dashiva wrote on Fri, 01 August 2008 09:36

I want to join


Excellent. I've added you to the list.



What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Hard Rocks Fri, 01 August 2008 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cyph34r is currently offline cyph34r

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class

Messages: 57
Registered: January 2007
go ahead and count me in, i've decided not to play IT either way, again think they should be banned/penalized some way, i don't know how many people are considering IT though

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Re: Hard Rocks Fri, 01 August 2008 14:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
cyph34r wrote on Fri, 01 August 2008 13:41

go ahead and count me in, i've decided not to play IT either way, again think they should be banned/penalized some way, i don't know how many people are considering IT though


Done.

Jury is still out on IT, but I find it interesting that you're deciding not to play a PRT that you think needs to be banned/penalized for this game. Very interesting indeed.



What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Hard Rocks Fri, 01 August 2008 21:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cyph34r is currently offline cyph34r

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class

Messages: 57
Registered: January 2007
I have other plans for my race Very Happy

I play IT a fair bit anyway, time for a change

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Re: Hard Rocks Mon, 04 August 2008 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
How would everyone feel about starting with 4 players, and taking the size down from medium to small? That would take the planets per player from 36 down to 32.

I'm okay with waiting for more players, but I thought I'd throw this out there to see if you guys are itching to kick this one off.



What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Hard Rocks Mon, 04 August 2008 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stranger is currently offline stranger

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 16
Registered: November 2003
Location: Oregon, USA
Well, since my other game isn't going I guess I'd like to join in this one. Are you up for starting with at least 5?

--Mr. Strange

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Re: Hard Rocks Mon, 04 August 2008 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
stranger wrote on Mon, 04 August 2008 12:33

Well, since my other game isn't going I guess I'd like to join in this one. Are you up for starting with at least 5?

--Mr. Strange


Absolutely. I'll put you on the list. We'll see if we get any other stragglers. I will cap the game at 8 players.

I'll still aim to keep the stars per player in the mid 30's. Universe size and density will just depend on the number of players we get. With 5, our best fit is small/dense at 32 planets per player.



What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Hard Rocks Mon, 04 August 2008 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
beanspoon is currently offline beanspoon

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 182
Registered: June 2008
Shall I send my race file along now?


The goat whats YOU.

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Re: Hard Rocks Mon, 04 August 2008 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
beanspoon wrote on Mon, 04 August 2008 15:19

Shall I send my race file along now?


I'll let everyone know when and where to send race files. Hang tight for a bit.



What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: Hard Rocks Mon, 04 August 2008 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
stranger is currently offline stranger

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 16
Registered: November 2003
Location: Oregon, USA
I'd prefer to avoid "dense" if possible - it sort of changes the relative use of minefields, engine settings, and so forth. I've only run a few tests with my -m race, but those were all in "normal" density galaxies. If we do decide to go dense, I'll make a tweak or two.

FWIW, I prefer the slightly longer interaction times of normal, especially with weird settings such as everyone plays a -m race.

--Mr. Strange

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