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"Presets" for absolute beginners Mon, 23 June 2008 12:49 Go to next message
beanspoon is currently offline beanspoon

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 182
Registered: June 2008
I'd like to set up (and host) a game for absolute beginners. The purpose of this game is to get used to everything (if you aren't already) and get a feel for what it is like to play against other human opponents online. It might be an idea to have one of these every few months to integrate new players.

Overview:

3 or 4 beginners
Free for all
Max 48 hours between turns

Medium Size
Normal Density
Moderate player distance
Beginner: Max materials checked

All races allowed.

I shouldn't think I have to say don't cheat. It's obvious.

So...Anyone interested?

Players interested:
Beanspoon (me)
Effluvient Walrus
Airny
Factor


[Updated on: Tue, 24 June 2008 03:33]




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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Mon, 23 June 2008 13:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
donjon is currently offline donjon

 
Lt. Commander

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beanspoon wrote on Mon, 23 June 2008 10:49


For this game chaff is not allowed. It's ok to defend your large ships with an escort of smaller craft, but these must have a legitimate purpose and not just be pure cannon fodder. This is so that newbies can get to grips with the basic gameplay without the advanced tactics of more senior games.


A no-chaff game is not normal if you wish to set one up, thats fine, but under normal circumstances chaff is an integral part of the game.

The reason is it is very hard to define what is (or is not chaff) once you define the "chaff" type, then the players will identify the cheapest ship which does not fall into the category and use it as the new chaff.

regards,
dj

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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Mon, 23 June 2008 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
beanspoon is currently offline beanspoon

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

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Good point. Thanks - I've edited the overview. I've never used chaff before in a game, but then again, i've never played a human before...

[Updated on: Mon, 23 June 2008 13:25]




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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Mon, 23 June 2008 13:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
perrindom is currently offline perrindom

 

Messages: 129
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you could define chaff as armed scouts or frigates (banned) - then destroyers would likely be too costly in resources and minerals to use as chaff.

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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Mon, 23 June 2008 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
beanspoon is currently offline beanspoon

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

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Ok, I've got an idea...


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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Mon, 23 June 2008 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
perrindom is currently offline perrindom

 

Messages: 129
Registered: August 2005
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With all respect for the predefined races, it might be better to use race designs that are more like what most players use in multiplayer games, designs that have proven themself.

Besides, not that I have experience with them, I would guess that the strategy for each of the predefined races are too different to provide a good and even/balanced game. Either they ramp up fast or too slow (resources/minerals/tech) to give a good game. Universe settings/size also give big differences in their performance I suspect.

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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Mon, 23 June 2008 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
beanspoon is currently offline beanspoon

 
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How about all players play as JOAT?

That way everyone has the same footing. Ok it lacks diversity, but this is a beginners' game.


[Updated on: Mon, 23 June 2008 14:03]




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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Mon, 23 June 2008 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
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Race design is a huge part of the game. I'm not sure what beginners gain from having their race design choices constrained. Assuming that this is a true beginner game and you want to constrain race design, then maybe have the players select from a set of races culled from postings in this forum. Use the Search function to search on: cawley race design, and you will find some very good designs.

Also, your No Dodges, No Cheats, No Chaff restrictions are an invitation to squabbling. The Split Fleet Dodge has become standard practice in part because there is no good way to police restricting it, that and some code clean up in the last version or so. No chaff will make missile boats unrealistically powerful, were realistic is most other games of Stars. Not having chaff also restricts the chaff sweeping of MFs, a skill that beginners need to practice.

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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Mon, 23 June 2008 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
beanspoon is currently offline beanspoon

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

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There. Updated yet again. I still have a lot to learn.

Perhaps a more experienced player should set this one up and host it. Any takers?



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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Mon, 23 June 2008 20:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Effluviant Walrus is currently offline Effluviant Walrus

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

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Registered: May 2008
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I'd like to play, as the host for Gunboat Diplomacy (Ptolemy) has seemingly been abducted by aliens.. Sad

[Updated on: Mon, 23 June 2008 20:43]

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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Mon, 23 June 2008 21:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
Lieutenant

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beanspoon wrote on Mon, 23 June 2008 18:22

There. Updated yet again. I still have a lot to learn.

Perhaps a more experienced player should set this one up and host it. Any takers?


OK, I can do that but the game I suggest is:

Experience: Beginner (has played no more than 2 games)

# Players: 4-5

Universe: Small. Density normal (4 players) or dense (5 players). Average # planets per player = 32.

Other Game settings: Positions = Distant, Beginner Max. Minerals, ABBS, Public Scores appear in 2450, Galaxy Clumping.

PRTs ALLOWED: CA (must leave 100 RW points set to defences), JOAT (must leave 30 RW points set to defences), IS, SD, IT. i.e the races that are easiest to handle for beginners.

VC: winner by majority agreement among active players or player ranked #1 in 2480.

Diplomacy: Normal - this is a much under appreciated aspect with beginners so I don't want to discount it (but see below).

Special Rule: From 2450 onwards the player ranked #1 CANNOT have allies & all agreements made by that race will be rendered void. If an alliance agreement exists at the time a player is forced out of it by this rule then an automatic 5-year NAP between the previously allied players comes into force (that means that the NAP still exists after 5 years & that first possible battle occurs in the 6th year).

No cheats other than chaff (it's important that a beginner gets a good handle on that) & split fleet.

I will seek a 3rd party to critique the player's race designs so that noone starts the game with a broken race.

PLEASE DO NOT join this game if you are likely to drop when things get tough.

Beanspoon, if you find that agreeable then I'll repost the game above.

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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Mon, 23 June 2008 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Airny is currently offline Airny

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 33
Registered: June 2008
Location: Germany
I am interested, count me in!

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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Tue, 24 June 2008 00:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Factor is currently offline Factor

 
Chief Petty Officer

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I'm interested too, count me in

what if #1 and #2 are close by 2450 and #2 surpasses #1 a few years later? would #2 have to give up his alliances?

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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Tue, 24 June 2008 01:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vmanuel is currently offline vmanuel

 
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AlexTheGreat wrote on Mon, 23 June 2008 20:32



Special Rule: From 2450 onwards the player ranked #1 CANNOT have allies & all agreements made by that race will be rendered void. If an alliance agreement exists at the time a player is forced out of it by this rule then an automatic 5-year NAP between the previously allied players comes into force (that means that the NAP still exists after 5 years & that first possible battle occurs in the 6th year).




Hey, I thought this was supposed to be simple? Laughing

I always enjoyed the part of the endgame where the #1 player says to #5 (or 10, or 16), "Okay I'll kill you last if you just help me kill off that #2 guy."

Not that I've ever BEEN the #16 guy. Except for that one time...



Editor in Chief of the Kaynan Space News.
All Space, All The Time - Kaynan!
www.myhood.biz

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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Tue, 24 June 2008 01:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Factor wrote on Tue, 24 June 2008 00:46

I'm interested too, count me in

what if #1 and #2 are close by 2450 and #2 surpasses #1 a few years later? would #2 have to give up his alliances?


Yes Rolling Eyes

but the player that was #1 & is now #2 can negotiate new agreements.

I wouldn't want to overly complicate things by differentiating between, say, a 5% lead v a 50% lead.

The idea of this rule is to maintain interest for the players that are a bit behind. eg. if you're #3 you might have a chance to narrow the gap, if you're #5 you can still play a role as a possible kingmaker. If #1 & #2 interchange positions a couple of times that should disrupt the leaders & that might even magnify possibilities such as those.

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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Tue, 24 June 2008 02:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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vmanuel wrote on Tue, 24 June 2008 01:04

AlexTheGreat wrote on Mon, 23 June 2008 20:32



Special Rule: From 2450 onwards the player ranked #1 CANNOT have allies & all agreements made by that race will be rendered void. If an alliance agreement exists at the time a player is forced out of it by this rule then an automatic 5-year NAP between the previously allied players comes into force (that means that the NAP still exists after 5 years & that first possible battle occurs in the 6th year).




Hey, I thought this was supposed to be simple? Laughing

I always enjoyed the part of the endgame where the #1 player says to #5 (or 10, or 16), "Okay I'll kill you last if you just help me kill off that #2 guy."

Not that I've ever BEEN the #16 guy. Except for that one time...


Same deal except #2 teams up with the lower ranked player since his interest is in changing the outcome whereas #1's interest would be in keeping the status quo.

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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Tue, 24 June 2008 03:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
beanspoon is currently offline beanspoon

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

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AlexTheGreat wrote on Mon, 23 June 2008 21:32


Beanspoon, if you find that agreeable then I'll repost the game above.


Yep, I'm cool with that!

Just so you know, here are the players interested so far:

Beanspoon
Effluvient Walrus
Airny
Factor

That's enough to begin the game! Waiting for your repost!



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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Tue, 24 June 2008 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Effluviant Walrus is currently offline Effluviant Walrus

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

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Location: New York, US
Could we please either ban or further nerf CA? 100 RW points is not a big enough penalty IMHO to make up for TT+Instaforming (or just instaforming by itself for that matter...)

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icon13.gif  Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Tue, 24 June 2008 08:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Airny is currently offline Airny

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 33
Registered: June 2008
Location: Germany
I also thought this game was meant to be simple. I don't know if the discussion above is final. So pleasse add all rules to the first post to summarize them.

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Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners Tue, 24 June 2008 08:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
Lieutenant

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This game has been reposted as "In The Beginning".

Could a moderator please lock the topic.

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Topic locked (Re: "Presets" for absolute beginners) Tue, 24 June 2008 09:05 Go to previous message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
AlexTheGreat wrote on Tue, 24 June 2008 14:52

Could a moderator please lock the topic.

Have been waiting till I saw the new announcement to do so. Wink

mch,
modaw

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