Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » New Game Announcements » Line Of Supply / Fog of War
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| Re: Line Of Supply / Fog of War |
Sun, 18 May 2008 18:04   |
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| Micha wrote on Mon, 19 May 2008 09:17 |
| perrindom wrote on Sun, 18 May 2008 17:49 |
I think the effect is tolerable, but if Gible is willing to do the required work, let's make them centered.
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For Reach for the Top Wumpus did this, not sure if Gible can do it as well.
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Neither am I. In theory, I might be able to using PaulCr's activeX thingy, but I can't guaruntee anything.
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| Re: Line Of Supply / Fog of War |
Wed, 21 May 2008 11:34 |
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| perrindom wrote on Wed, 21 May 2008 17:28 |
Altruist: won most of recent games: 70
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The bitter truth is I lost all the recent games.
But if Per takes 70 points as penalty, I'll be too proud, of course, to take less... nah, I'll go even forth and take 71 points as a penalty *grin
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| Re: Line Of Supply / Fog of War |
Wed, 21 May 2008 17:04 |
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 iojho |
 | Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 280
Registered: October 2006
Location: EPBA | |
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As for the odd number of players, if Matt or anybody else will not join us, maybe we should drop the restricion of only one ally, which IMO is not essential from the perspective of the game concept.
With 7 players I would opt for small universe (not so as I had small screen  ). However, I do not mind if you want to take medium.
With regard to the penalty points  . Ok I am fine with that. However, there is one "but". Namely, those who would benefit from the penalty points left by more experienced players should first accept this idea, IMO. What will be if one of the players who had more points to spend in race wizard will win. He might think that he won only because he got more points not due to better race or tactic. This thought may take away all satisfaction from the win.
iojho
"Every person speculates on creating a new need in another, so as to drive him to fresh sacrifice, to place him in a new dependence and to seduce him into a new mode of enjoyment and therefore economic ruin."
Karl Marx,1844Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Line Of Supply / Fog of War |
Wed, 21 May 2008 18:47 |
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| perrindom |
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Messages: 129
Registered: August 2005
Location: Denmark | |
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| mlaub wrote on Wed, 21 May 2008 21:05 |
1. Will the scheduled be held, even if there are issues with AH? (meaning gen'd as soon as AH comes back?).
2. Do the bands need to be centered? and does this mean no immunities? Please clarify, still confused on that.
3. CA - this is the only penalty? "take either Ultimate recycling or Mineral Alchemy"
4. Did anything get decided on cap missiles?
5. HE gets a "free" fuel pod (engine + empty mini-colonizer). It isn't that great, but it is better than everyone else. Is that just a bonus?
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Ad 1: I would rather make sure everybody get their turn in at the cost of half a day's delay instead of risking 'tilting' the game because players didn't get to submit. (was that the answer you were looking for?)
Ad 2: Yes, two of the hab-bands must be centered, for the third applies that the center value must make it a green planet to you before any game starting terra ability. Immunities are from edge to edge and thus considered centered, i.e. allowed.
Ad 3: Perhaps too little I agree, but it would be nice to actually see a CA in a game.
Ad 4: Cap missiles are allowed.
Ad 5: Hm, I don't have the experience to tell whether that is too big an advantage. Should the Mini-Colonizer hull be banned completely? Som help here please.
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| Re: Line Of Supply / Fog of War |
Wed, 21 May 2008 19:34 |
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| iojho wrote on Wed, 21 May 2008 23:04 |
Namely, those who would benefit from the penalty points left by more experienced players should first accept this idea, IMO.
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I don't think so. The agreement of the penalized is more important. I haven't looked the other players up but I trust Per's judgement. If the skill or experience level is too different, it's often no fun for all players. It's good to level the field a bit.
| Quote: |
What will be if one of the players who had more points to spend in race wizard will win. He might think that he won only because he got more points not due to better race or tactic. This thought may take away all satisfaction from the win.
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No reason for that. And unlikely in my experience. Whoever wins a game as a newbie against players with a skill level around advanced intermediate, deserves all the maniac delight he or she feels.
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| Re: Line Of Supply / Fog of War |
Wed, 21 May 2008 19:42 |
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| mlaub |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA | |
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| perrindom wrote on Wed, 21 May 2008 17:47 |
| mlaub wrote on Wed, 21 May 2008 21:05 |
1. Will the scheduled be held, even if there are issues with AH? (meaning gen'd as soon as AH comes back?).
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Ad 1: I would rather make sure everybody get their turn in at the cost of half a day's delay instead of risking 'tilting' the game because players didn't get to submit. (was that the answer you were looking for?)
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Not quite what I meant. Fine with waiting half a day if necessary, and sometimes it is necessary to skip a turn. However, I am not interested if turns are consistently dropped altogether. I guess my point is "yes AH is down, but you can still have your turn ready to go", and most of the time you can upload it while AH is freaked out. It is real easy to get into the habit of skipping turns, but that can make a long game if you are already at the 3 turns a week level. Plus, I lose focus and play terrible. 
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Ad 5: Hm, I don't have the experience to tell whether that is too big an advantage. Should the Mini-Colonizer hull be banned completely? Som help here please.
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An easy solution would be to say you can't have the nose section empty. That way there is no free ride right from the get go. With the starting mechanicals (I think), that puts the cost and range slightly "better", but on par to a empty colonizer hull.
Or, this might be a non-issue...just thought I'd bring it up.
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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| Re: Line Of Supply / Fog of War |
Thu, 22 May 2008 03:27 |
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| iojho |
| Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 280
Registered: October 2006
Location: EPBA | |
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I think you see things only from your side as more experienced player. I understand that to win against weak player with a poor race design it is not a big deal. In consequence, in order to make the game a challenge you want to use handicap. This is clear for me. I also do not want to win easily.
But there is also other side - those without penalty points - they also may want to maximise their feel of the satisfaction. If they win they know that they did it in even conditions only due to better tactic, strategy, intelligence, and... luck and not as they had more points to spend. They KNOW, they do not need to BELIEVE. If they lose they learned a lesson, they had a great opportunity to see what experience player can do with well designed race.
I have not played in a game where some players used handicaps, and even if I had such option I would not accept it. That is why I think it is very important to obtain an approval from those who we offered more points to (is it correct in English? ). So far, only Thieflord took a stance and he do not want to take advantage of it.
iojho
"Every person speculates on creating a new need in another, so as to drive him to fresh sacrifice, to place him in a new dependence and to seduce him into a new mode of enjoyment and therefore economic ruin."
Karl Marx,1844Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Line Of Supply / Fog of War |
Thu, 22 May 2008 12:42 |
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| perrindom |
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Messages: 129
Registered: August 2005
Location: Denmark | |
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| mlaub wrote on Thu, 22 May 2008 01:42 |
I am not interested if turns are consistently dropped altogether. I guess my point is "yes AH is down, but you can still have your turn ready to go", and most of the time you can upload it while AH is freaked out.
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If AH is just frozen and upload is still possible, I plan to hold no longer than as we still get most of the time until next deadline, as long as someone is not caught unable to do turns because the next 18 hours are their timezone time for sleep and work. This being my first hosting, I don't know options the host has for such things. One advantage of dynamic schedule using 24 or 48 hours deadlines it that it is very simple to say "AH was online again at 1400, so you got until 1400 tomorrow".
However, if a player misses two unexplained turns and is out of contact, I will pause the game for a turn or so to look for a replacement. I have seen how fast the fun and thrill is sucked out of a game when a major player goes AWOL.
These are after all small prolongings of a game that will last 3 months or so.
| mlaub wrote on Thu, 22 May 2008 01:42 |
| Quote: |
Ad 5: Hm, I don't have the experience to tell whether that is too big an advantage. Should the Mini-Colonizer hull be banned completely? Som help here please.
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An easy solution would be to say you can't have the nose section empty. That way there is no free ride right from the get go. With the starting mechanicals (I think), that puts the cost and range slightly "better", but on par to a empty colonizer hull.
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Actually, it is still a lot better if you look at how little Germ such a mini-colonizer hull booster uses.
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| Re: Line Of Supply / Fog of War |
Thu, 22 May 2008 13:11 |
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| perrindom |
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Messages: 129
Registered: August 2005
Location: Denmark | |
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| iojho wrote on Thu, 22 May 2008 09:27 |
I think you see things only from your side as more experienced player... If they win they know that they did it in even conditions only due to better tactic, strategy, intelligence... If they lose they learned a lesson, they had a great opportunity to see what experience player can do with well designed race.
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I try to see it from all sides, and for new players to learn the most possible in a game, and for as long time as possible, I think they should either be teamed up with a veteran to get a glimpse on how she/he plays, OR fight the veteran on conditions that will let the new player experience as many aspects of the game as possible such as initial skirmishes, fight for space, evasive tactics, big battles into the cap missile age, lots of tactical cat and mouse movements etc. That is IMO best achieved by giving an advantage to the new player. I have seen players that were run over before they almost were out of the cradle so to speak, and I cannot imagine that being any fun for anyone - of any side. They perhaps spent two months on that game not really learning much.
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| Re: Line Of Supply / Fog of War |
Fri, 23 May 2008 10:04 |
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Hi guys,
I would like to join this game, having finished with Basic Training and getting second place. I would consider myself an experienced beginner. With regards to penalty points, I would be willing to have the more experienced players take them, so we less-experienced ones can have a somewhat better chance.
Leknufrag
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| Re: Line Of Supply / Fog of War |
Sat, 24 May 2008 04:40 |
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| perrindom |
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Messages: 129
Registered: August 2005
Location: Denmark | |
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Regarding CA:
I am fully aware that CA is not penalized as much as it normally is, and in this game HE should also be a very good bargain. I think next comes IS, then SS, Wm and SD, and then AR.
Regarding player penalty points:
There is another way to make it a level game but it has some drawbacks: those who think they are the least experienced choose one of the stronger races, and those who think are the most experienced choose one the not so strong races. The drawback is that players feel forced to pick certain races/sway from picking what they would like to play in this game.
Player vote on player penalty:
For/ok: Per, (Altruist?), (leknufrag, if Matt doesn't join)
Against: ThiefLord
Indifferent: Oijho
I will give it one more day to see which way the poll swings. If it ends even we penalize. If it falls "it will be up to every player to design the race that he/she believes will give the funniest/most thrilling game whatever that might be"
[Updated on: Sat, 24 May 2008 04:49] Report message to a moderator
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