jimroberts wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 21:54

As for submitting the first turn, yes, we're waiting for Ron to give us a game page. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I could ask Micha to send me all the starting files and you to send me x files and I'll generate turns until Autohost is ready. But if we go that way, Micha almost need never have been involved: those who don't know me could suspect that I might take advantage of being the one with all the starting files - there are ways I could cheat.

Once you generate a turn yourself you change the game and the files need to be resent to Ron, so the delay starts all over again. Starting off AH is not really an option.

mch

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jimroberts wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 21:54

Do you see why I didn't want an open discussion? Those with the robust view, that we take what we get, go public, those who feel more vulnerable keep quiet.

Assuming noone was bluffing or on the contrary keeping his/her -f approach quiet.

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I'm not big on keeping my big mouth shut.
I'm just curious - is everybody's HW mineral concentration as bad as mine? My concentrations are just a point or two above the 30% limit. If others have far better, I have a disadvantage, and well, damn it. If not, oh well.

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Hilton wrote on Wed, 23 April 2008 12:39

I'm not big on keeping my big mouth shut. I'm just curious - is everybody's HW mineral concentration as bad as mine?

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Can you let us know which one your home world is so we can check it out for ourselves ?

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djf01 wrote on Wed, 23 April 2008 05:56

However it is also possible to patch your stars!.exe so that the multiple selecting "Beginner: Maximum Minerals" gives you can be adjusted, either up or down.

Yeah, there is a version that reduces all mineral concentrations to 1. PricklyPea made it when I toyed with the idea of a
"Expert: Minimum Minerals" game, that would be the oppostie of the BMM setting, and happens by selecting BMM during game setup.

mch

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jimroberts wrote on Wed, 23 April 2008 09:00

Quote: ... my experience is obviously limited, but as I understand it, HW concentrations are random, like every other planet ... All our HWs start with the same concentrations and starting minerals, except that during race design you can spend points to improve them: click the help button on page 1 of the race wizard for more information. In particular, 3 points gets you an improvement of 1% in the concentration which would have been poorest. Nobody here is saying that he wants to stay with what we have because he has high concentrations, though he may be thinking, "What a good thing that I don't want to build a lot of factories.".

Actually you get 3/4 of the leftoverpoints spend in the lowest concentration, and 1/4 in *both* of the others. An example, starting with 40i/35b/50g and spending 48 leftover points would give you: 40+12/35+36/50+12 = 52/71/62. Starting with all concentrations the same, 30 in this universe iron gets the 3/4.

Quote:

I don't know how Micha generated, but I sent him a def file and he said it would be useful. This is it: Quote: Pebbles in the sky 3 2 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 10 ... 1 30 1 25 5 1 9000 1 30 1 150 1 300 1 130 4 100 pebbles.xy Race file names go in place of the elipsis. You can read about this in the Stars! help under Setup/Hosting, Multi-Player Setup, Creating a Universe from the Command Line.

And that's what I used. Except that I added a seed number (4th number on the second line). Don't worry the host (nor any of you now it is public) can *not* recreate the universe and pre-scan it.

mch

{Edit: changed to "can *not* recreate" }

[Updated on: Wed, 23 April 2008 05:36]

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jimroberts wrote on Wed, 23 April 2008 11:21

Micha wrote on Wed, 23 April 2008 09:35 And that's what I used. Except that I added a seed number (4th number on the second line). Don't worry the host (nor any of you now it is public) can recreate the universe and pre-scan it. mch You are saying that we can't recreate and prescan, I hope. Though if you were to make the seed public, we could recreate and prescan, right?

DOH! Right! "Can NOT recreate ..." I'll change that in my post.
No, even if I make the seed number public you won't. It's related to the machine, at least I remember making a seed for someone else and at his machine he got different results ...

Quote:

I didn't know about the 3/4 rule for concentrations, just believed the race wizard help. My version is dated 1998. Is there a newer one?

Rule #1 : don't believe the help file.
Hm, not sure which is the last one, can't check till I'm at home. But I believe that it is there incorrect as well.

mch

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Micha wrote on Wed, 23 April 2008 11:30

Quote: I didn't know about the 3/4 rule for concentrations, just believed the race wizard help. My version is dated 1998. Is there a newer one? Rule #1 : don't believe the help file. Hm, not sure which is the last one, can't check till I'm at home. But I believe that it is there incorrect as well. mch

Rule #0 : Thou shalt doubt everything that's not been testbedded, if possible by thyself.

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djf01 wrote on Wed, 23 April 2008 16:31

Well, I don't think Micha is going to reveal how he created a universe where all the HWs have <30 base mineral concentrations. I haven't been able to re-produce it (the concentrations, not the universe). I presume he's used methods us Newbies probably shouldn't know about.

HWs don't start with below 30 concentrations. And I didn't do anything special. I took the .def file, genned the universe and that was it.

Quote:

I would like to know if *all* worlds are going to be similarly barren, or if it's just HWs?

Only HWs. Though I can't remember if AccBBs has an influence on non-HW concentrations as well ...

mch

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djf01 wrote on Wed, 23 April 2008 16:31

Well, I don't think Micha is going to reveal how he created a universe where all the HWs have <30 base mineral concentrations. I haven't been able to re-produce it (the concentrations, not the universe). I presume he's used methods us Newbies probably shouldn't know about.

Luck, I presume. I've certainly seen many games and testbeds where one or more minconcs were <30, though all 3 being <30 is not that common.

Keep trying testbeds. You should be able to run into a low minconc HW easily enough.

Quote:

I would like to know if *all* worlds are going to be similarly barren, or if it's just HWs?

Minconcs for the rest of the universe should be wholly random, and unrelated to the HW.

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Hi Guys,

In my gens <=30 mmcs is very common... I've never seen all three that low but two of them at that level is very common... by extension 3 at that level should also be common...

Basically it provides a challenge to QS and HP races... and HE races players should be smiling

regards,
dj

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djf01 wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 00:41

I finally understand how this works. I must apologise to everyone, and especially Micha, for effectively asking the same dumb question so many times.

About time you did! The game is up, now PLAY!

http://starsautohost.org/games/pebbles.htm

mch

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I wonder if this game should have a Private Forum. Any yeah votes?

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djf01 wrote on Wed, 23 April 2008 16:41

1) From the testing I did, the likelihood of all 3 being low is ~4%

Yes, your testing has proved slightly high in fact...

There is a 30% chance of one MC being 30 because homeworlds are rewritten to ensure that they always have 30% MC's on gen.

So, by extension, 3 MCs at 30% is only an occurrence in 2.7% of the gens (.3^3.) Looking at this from a slightly different perspective you could say that Micha has provided you with a universe which is relatively rare... occurring less than 3% of the time, or, conversely in the top 97 percentile

Have fun guys...

I'll close this topic.

dj.

[Updated on: Thu, 24 April 2008 12:51]

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