| Best way to match player's habs. |
Sun, 20 January 2008 03:45  |
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I want to know how you match two or three races so their habs are the most compatible for intersettling.
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| Re: Best way to match player's habs. |
Sun, 20 January 2008 04:04  |
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| Soobie |
 | Officer Cadet 3rd Year |
Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia | |
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You could try overlapping 2 of the habs as much as possible and then splitting the third by the number of players in the team?
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| Re: Best way to match player's habs. |
Sun, 20 January 2008 05:47 |
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I see, that's very cleaver, I was trying to do it by having them all share 2 habs and using 1i for a different one. LIke I had one race with rad immune, one with temp and one with gravity. Though granted these weren't the most effective ways to do it. I still had lots of mutual reds. But then I meant it so I had a PP with no 0i and he shared all the habs and so he could terraform for the other 3. There was an AR in the group to feed the PP with ammo for terraforming for the rest. The game hasn't gotten to the stage of actually fulfilling the plan. But I'll do it your way next time.
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| Re: Best way to match player's habs. |
Tue, 22 January 2008 19:18 |
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You could also try 1i (different for each race), 1 wide (again different), and one narrow. The planets with the narrow with your race, could be colonized by the one with that immune. or even go 1i (different), 2 narrow (different parts of the band).
It would still leave a handful of reds for all(more for the 2 narrow), but would be much better imho, giving way more good greens, faster terraforming, and a faster start than 2 overlapping wides and splitting the 3rd.
In this game it is usually a waste of points to try to colonize *all* the planets. Somewhere between say 50% and maybe 80% by the end of the game seems to balance points and speed and give optimum results.
naz
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| Re: Best way to match player's habs. |
Wed, 23 January 2008 00:14 |
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All taking narrow in a different field, will lead to quite a few reds, and a few cases where a world will be very good for several reaces.
Soobie's suggestion is a strong one. Example:
Grav: All races immune
Temp: All races very wide
Rad: All minimum, centred 18,50,82
Almost all worlds will be excellent for someone. No one has to terraform a yellow that is more than 7 clicks. Only problem is that quite a few worlds are yellow for multiple players, and edge worlds in Temp are bad for everyone.
Here is a more complex, but excellent hab scheme (in my eye):
Grav: Race A and B immune. Race C very wide.
Temp: Race A takes a hab that allows green/yellow colonise of all <0^. Race B aims for >0^ (try to make 0^ about -8% to -10%). Race C takes immune.
Rad: Race A and B both take habs that will allow them to yellow colonise clicks 1-59. Race C takes hab that will allow them to colonise 61-99 (try to make 60mR about -5% for everyone)
All worlds will be habitable to someone. Almost all worlds will be a breeder for someone. Worlds at the 'dispute' areas (like 60mR) should be easily selected based on the temp/grav distinguishing them. The exact split in temp between races A and B can be adjusted to suit the races. Ditto in rad - race C as it stands has the broadest hab.
[Updated on: Wed, 23 January 2008 00:18] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Best way to match player's habs. |
Wed, 23 January 2008 02:27 |
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| Soobie |
| Officer Cadet 3rd Year |
Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia | |
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| Dogthinkers wrote on Wed, 23 January 2008 15:44 |
Here is a more complex, but excellent hab scheme (in my eye):
Grav: Race A and B immune. Race C very wide.
Temp: Race A takes a hab that allows green/yellow colonise of all <0^. Race B aims for >0^ (try to make 0^ about -8% to -10%). Race C takes immune.
Rad: Race A and B both take habs that will allow them to yellow colonise clicks 1-59. Race C takes hab that will allow them to colonise 61-99 (try to make 60mR about -5% for everyone).
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Nice. Even most of the good yellows are eventually breeders. Race C looks like a -f or HE race? Don't know if I'd want my -f sitting on the high rad/high conc worlds with their traditionally low mine settings? HE, AR or IT could mine it pretty damn efficiently though. The other 2 could be almost anything? A non-imm HG could fit in there quite well, too?
My only thought on it (and Naz suggestion of swapping imm fields) is that it possibily prioritises all three hab fields. What I like about Dog's first suggestion is that it clearly de-prioritises Grav, hopefully meaning you can play weak in prop - possibly having only one or 2 players with IFE and the third not taking NRSE and also fitting CE in there somewhere. I'm sure similar arguments can be found for and against temp or rad also, depending on PRT and LRT mix.
On the flipside, the problem with the first suggestion is that you have 3 races trying to find the points for a very wide - this could weaken fac settings or inspire people to run with 3 -f races. Dog's second suggestion gets around this quite nicely.
Moving on, I'd probably be inclined to slightly modify Naz' suggestion regarding 1-imm narrow hab HG/QS races. eg. you might decide to heavily overlap right-shifted narrow rad (taking a punt on the better minerals on average), share the same imm-band and then split the hab on the non-imm band. Chances are there would likely be somewhere between 22~30 clicks on the split hab, meaning little to no hab overlap unless the game goes long.
Sadly, the original suggestion I made was not my idea - I've come across it a few times - iirc my first attempts at team hab were met with "bloody stupid idea".
Cheers
S.
edit: grammatical error
[Updated on: Wed, 23 January 2008 07:55] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Best way to match player's habs. |
Wed, 23 January 2008 07:17 |
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The habs I describe Are likely to spit out two races with about 1/5 or 1/6 showing in the race wizard, and one with 1/3 or 1/4 showing.
In a small universe the broader hab race would probably be a -f race. In a big universe this would probably be a HP race or an AR.
If the wider hab race isn't the one you want accessing the high min concs, you just flip the rad band around, makes no difference at all really... Actually, slightly better, since right shifting gives slightly more points than left shifting, so it's good to have two races going right not one.
I designed the above hab scheme for a large 3v3v3v3 game (that never started.) If I remember right, I was going to take a HP econ race with the broader hab band, as the 'ace in the hole' / uber-mining race, with two faster races up front trying to dominate off the start, a WM and something else.
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| Re: Best way to match player's habs. |
Wed, 23 January 2008 11:09 |
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 joseph |
 | Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 440
Registered: May 2003
Location: Bristol | |
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There was a long discussion a year or so ago on the best way to split habs between different numbers on a team.
The best number is of course eight as you can split all 3 variables in half. Each person taking a 1/2 of each hab.
For 3 Dogthinkers is a great scheme but if you were planning on spending more equal amounts on hab
Try Grav - all wide/immune
Temp - 1 wide, 1 low, 1 high
Rad - 1 high, 1 low, 1 wide
This allows you to design your races around one of the most commonly used single player set ups of
1 immune, 1 wide, 1 narrow (although 1 of your races will be better than this with 1 immune, 2 narrow).
However if you are designing the whole 3 races together then you can use specific racial strengths.
Very similarly to Dogthinkers - just makes 1 player have a significantly bigger investment in HAB
A 2I HE with low rad will cover a lot of the available planets (50%) and you can still build a pretty competative race (a 2I 1 narrow).
The other 2 races have high rad. Split one of the 2 remaining habs in half and then are immune for the last (gives 1 immune 2 narrow).
[Updated on: Wed, 23 January 2008 12:03]
Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Best way to match player's habs. |
Wed, 23 January 2008 12:28 |
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Presently I am exploring a parallel problem slightly related:
For Hidden Friends I have eight disparate races which i need to define the alliances for.
Obviously the first consideration is PRT, we do not want like or conflicting??? PRTs allied together. However, then one has to consider intersettlement problems...
To do this, I consider the range which a race has for each of the environmental variables... and then examine what percent of this range is not compromised by alliance with another race. I then attempted to maximize the value for each race to determine which races would be better suited to cooperate.
Its actually quite a tricky analysis since the to races may overlap in the lower or upper portions of their habs and also, may not intersect at all!!!
The formula I came up with was:
with Gm1,Gx1 as min/max for player1 in Grav
and so on....
Uncontested-1-2=
(((ln(Gx1)-ln(Gm1))-IF(OR(ln(Gx1)<=ln(Gm2);ln(Gm1)>=ln (Gx2));0;
IF(ln(Gm2)<=ln(Gm1);IF(ln(Gx2)<=ln(Gx1);ln(Gx2)-ln(Gm1 );ln(Gx1)-ln(Gm1));
IF(ln(Gx2)<=ln(Gm1);ln(Gx2)-ln(Gm2);ln(Gx1)-ln(Gm2)))))/( ln(Gx1)-ln(Gm1))+1)
*(((Tx1-Tm1)-IF(OR(Tx1<=Tm2;Tm1>=Tx2);0;IF(Tm2<=Tm1 ;
IF(Tx2<=Tx1;Tx2-Tm1;Tx1-Tm1);IF(Tx2<=Tm1;Tx2-Tm2;Tx1-T m2))))/(Tx1-Tm1)+1)
*(((Rx1-Rm1)-IF(OR(Rx1<=Rm2;Rm1>=Rx2);0;IF(Rm2<=Rm1 ;
IF(Rx2<=Rx1;Rx2-Rm1;Rx1-Rm1);IF(Rx2<=Rm1;Rx2-Rm2;Rx1-R m2))))/(Rx1-Rm1)+1)^0.333
This is sort of a spreadsheet cell formula... I removed cell references and placed in proper variable names.
Anyway, with this I think I came up with some reasonable team definitions.
regards,
dj
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| Re: Best way to match player's habs. |
Sat, 26 January 2008 02:18 |
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Is that what those are.. I thought they were LONGarithms.
I'm not even sure how I'd put that in a calculator, much less read it. But I see it uses natural log excessively in some places
[Updated on: Sat, 26 January 2008 02:19]
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| Re: Best way to match player's habs. |
Sat, 26 January 2008 14:38 |
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Really... You mean the gravity can be simplified with ln? I'd not have expected that. Probably why I never figured out the pattern exactly.
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Are those logarithms? 
