[Updated on: Thu, 10 January 2008 01:35]

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Shoot me now

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Just noticed something interesting I hadn't clocked onto in the OoE before... A use for retro bombs...

Apparently CA terraforming (i.e. Orbital Adjusters) takes place at the end of the OoE

However Retro bombs take effect at the end of the bombing process for the bombing player... So another bombing player with a later playernumber could exploit the fact that the retro bombs had deterraformed the planet.

I'd written off retro bombs as pointless before... But going by the OoE, when coordinating bombing with an ally you could get cheap, easy, non-infrastructure ruining, 'instant' planet kills. Enough retros in the lower playernumber to turn the planet red. Then enough cherries on the higher playernumber to kill most of the pop through 10 defenses (Thats 59 cherries needed, against Neutron Sheilds.)

Very cheap, very quick, and destroys <500 installations.

I'm saying nothing new, I'm sure... I just never really considered it before

[Updated on: Thu, 10 January 2008 18:31]

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Dogthinkers wrote on Fri, 11 January 2008 00:28

Just noticed something interesting I hadn't clocked onto in the OoE before... A use for retro bombs... Apparently CA terraforming (i.e. Orbital Adjusters) takes place at the end of the OoE However Retro bombs take effect at the end of the bombing process for the bombing player... So another bombing player with a later playernumber could exploit the fact that the retro bombs had deterraformed the planet. I'd written off retro bombs as pointless before... But going by the OoE, when coordinating bombing with an ally you could get cheap, easy, non-infrastructure ruining, 'instant' planet kills. Enough retros in the lower playernumber to turn the planet red. Then enough cherries on the higher playernumber to kill most of the pop through 10 defenses (Thats 59 cherries needed, against Neutron Sheilds.) Very cheap, very quick, and destroys <500 installations. I'm saying nothing new, I'm sure... I just never really considered it before

Yup, last time I had a CA ally we were doing just that. And using OAs for the same thing too.

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Soobie wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 01:10

This would work because of the CA crystal ball letting you know which planets started life as red??

Not necessarily. Retro bombs and enemy OAs just "unterraform" against the hab values of the planet owner. If you got enough of them, most planets will "degrade" fast enough to weaken defenses.

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m.a@stars wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 06:05

Yup, last time I had a CA ally we were doing just that. And using OAs for the same thing too.

So do OAs deterraform before subsequent players bomb? The current OoE says otherwise...?

If not, that'd only work for a 2-year kill, not single year kill.

Appeal of the Retro-bomb is that, assuming the OoE is accurate on this, it has an effect before later playernumbers do regular bombing, unlike the OA.

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Dogthinkers wrote on Mon, 14 January 2008 09:44

[email m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 06:05]Yup, last time I had a CA ally we were doing just that. And using OAs for the same thing too. So do OAs deterraform before subsequent players bomb? The current OoE says otherwise...? If not, that'd only work for a 2-year kill, not single year kill. Appeal of the Retro-bomb is that, assuming the OoE is accurate on this, it has an effect before later playernumbers do regular bombing, unlike the OA.

Yeah, I picked up on this - I was thinking the CA crystal ball means you get to see which planets were originally yellow for the target player, so you can selectively deterraform to red.

I'm assuming the combination of bombs means you get the world largely intact. A pity you can't use packets since everything with packets happens before bombs - even single year strikes.

Yet another reason to ban CA.

Cheers,
D.

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Dogthinkers wrote on Mon, 14 January 2008 00:14

So do OAs deterraform before subsequent players bomb? The current OoE says otherwise...?

IIRC, the OoE is right, OAs act after bombing.

Quote:

If not, that'd only work for a 2-year kill, not single year kill. Appeal of the Retro-bomb is that, assuming the OoE is accurate on this, it has an effect before later playernumbers do regular bombing, unlike the OA.

Indeed. The OAs just help easier 2-year kills. Which is not bad, considering their other uses. With OAs you can turn those conquered planets into nice bases for you in a snap.

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Soobie wrote on Mon, 14 January 2008 01:02

Yeah, I picked up on this - I was thinking the CA crystal ball means you get to see which planets were originally yellow for the target player, so you can selectively deterraform to red.

CAs can do that, of course, but the tactic itself is flexible enough to work with non-originally-red planets, and for non-crystal-ball-using races too.

Quote:

I'm assuming the combination of bombs means you get the world largely intact. A pity you can't use packets since everything with packets happens before bombs - even single year strikes.

"largely" is the key word, yup. PP can use monster packets to achieve much the same, and even AR if they got a mineral fountain. IS can just dump 10 million shock troops to achieve the same, and I guess some sufficiently motivated WM could try a large invasion too.

Quote:

Yet another reason to ban CA.

Why bother, when other races readily gang up against them, and can use the same CA tools (if they managed to acquire them) or lotsa smart bombs to level the playing field.

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