In a couple of games recently there has been the opportunity to play an unrestricted JoaT. They have not really leant themselves to slow starts. Despite this. in one of them I was very tempted to try out a JoaT HP and just really go the econ monster.

This is what I ended up testing, and it went OK but not brilliantly (32K @ 2450 - HW had bad min concs, but a nearby breeder was pretty great). Having said that, it felt like it was only just getting warmed up and I reckon the econ would have gone bananas if I'd bothered to take it to 2470 or 80.

JoaT
IFE, NRSE, OBRM, NAS, RS
G: 0.15 - 6.32
T: -172 - 172
R: 54 - 84
1 in 4 (about 1 in 2 with W16 - most starting greens become breeders pretty quickly)
18% PGR

Pop: 1/2500
Facs: 15/7/21 3G
Mines: 12/3/18

W cheap; all else expense. Start@4 NOT checked
9 points to min concs.

The 4 things that struck me were:
1) PGR - you really can get away with 17% with HP;
2) Minerals were a bit weak;
3) more points to min concs would be nice;
4) Cost 6 facs would be much more palatable.

No.4 in particular struck me - but to pay for it would mean something like cost 4 facs and 17% PGR. With minerals already tight in the early game that seems like a no go.

So, has anyone had any success with HP JoaT? Any races you care to share?

Cheers
S.


edit: forgot to put in the LRTs. It's my goal in life to always forget something. Thanks gible

[Updated on: Fri, 21 December 2007 04:35]

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No lrts?

HP can definately survive with 17% without problems...and widen the hab too if you wanted.

With HP its worthe setting aside the full 50 RW points for min concs...if you get a bad germ start without it you're screwed, and if you get a good germ with it, look out universe.

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joseph wrote on Sun, 23 December 2007 10:59

I know its a HP and you want the minerals but I would be tempted to drop your mine efficency to 10 as the increase to 12 is expensive - that would almost pay for your cost 6 factories.

Funnily enough, I'd be tempted to drop to 17% and maybe a couple of mines to buy more mine effiency

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Dogthinkers wrote on Mon, 24 December 2007 09:20

joseph wrote on Sun, 23 December 2007 10:59 I know its a HP and you want the minerals but I would be tempted to drop your mine efficency to 10 as the increase to 12 is expensive - that would almost pay for your cost 6 factories. Funnily enough, I'd be tempted to drop to 17% and maybe a couple of mines to buy more mine effiency

Tried dropping PGR to 17% and min eff to 11 so that I could drop fac cost to 6. Same seeded universe. Res was 36K @ 2450, and increasing by around 3K per turn. More importantly (to me) tech was much better (but still not spectacular by -f standards) by having the facs up earlier. 2420 still sucked bananas at about 1.5K though. Lots of Ir and Bor. No germ available until about 2435+ Any early conflict would be the death of this race.

Still, it's such a toss up. Those wide habs are very wide at 8 clicks to each edge ... very tempting to drop it to 12 clicks to buy back that 1 pt of mine eff. Reduces starting hab, but end game hab is roughly the same - just less carrying capacity.

Could possibly contemplate going to 20 facs and 16 mines, and using the points to buy back to 13 mine eff. The extra mine eff would certainly help as it is painful to watch the min concs disappear so fast each turn on developed planets. Is 20 facs operated enough for an HP? Even 21 feels a bit low.

Cheers
S.

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Well, since this is a JoaT Hyper-Producer, do you really need the wide habs? Or the cheap facs?

I feel with slightly less generous hab and slightly less cheap facs you could do nicely enough and still buy good Mine Eff to get your Germ.

Might need to exert yourself a bit more to find & populate the same breeders as the wide-hab version, but you got good scanning, engines, and pop.

Early wars with faster races will still be a problem, tho...

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[Updated on: Tue, 25 December 2007 03:24]

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