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| Long time... Really Long time... |
Sat, 10 November 2007 20:56  |
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Hey everybody,
Well, its been a LONG time since I touched this game or have input into the community. For those who have the memory for it, I was once Darkstal. Would have posted under that account but I have NOT the memory to remember the password for it.
As before, I'm still trying to make SS an economical force to recon with but I've lost all my old files, and have had to get all the posts I could find. Unfortunately most of the discussion that got me anywhere was on StarbaseDelta as I was anticipating the releasae of SN. The site is now down and all my posts are gone.
So, before I go into details about what I've missed over the years, I'd like to know what the standard Testbed scenario is for testing the 25-50k by 2450. Is it a Small or Tiny playing field and if so is it Dense or Packed?
Also, is Acc BBS Play a given still? And would it be safe to assume that if your trying for best case scenario that you set the Beginner max Min?
Also, there was something I was playing with before I lost touch with everybody and the game. There was Hyper Expansion, Hyper Production, and then a third one that used the worst settings for factories and best habitability range to colonize everything to get that 25k though I never was able to get enough planets or pure POPULATION to get the resources I needed in a Tiny Galaxy. Is this style of race Dubbed anything yet? is it viable?
Once I get an idea of what a solid testbed is like I'll try out something and see if I still have what it takes to push a race to its limits.
Hope time has treated you all well over these years!
Best wishes,
Christopher
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"A gem is not polished without rubbing, nor a man perfected without trials." - Chinese ProverbReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Long time... Really Long time... |
Mon, 12 November 2007 15:57  |
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Thanks for the tip on the 25k by 2450 for -f, so now I'm probably going to testbed a certain tech and a number of ships of that tech by a certain year as that seems the more feasible thing for -f.
If that is indeed the case, what build of ship should a -f have at what point to be able to expand into another players territory and by what year would that be ideal? Last time I remember the Frigate Rush was rather popular with r2 beams by 2420, and I'd wager at that point in time a fleet of about 20-30 could take on a decently defended base?
Thanks again for all your help!
Best wishes,
Christopher
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"A gem is not polished without rubbing, nor a man perfected without trials." - Chinese ProverbReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Long time... Really Long time... |
Tue, 13 November 2007 04:09 |
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| Entropicurity wrote on Mon, 12 November 2007 15:57 |
If that is indeed the case, what build of ship should a -f have at what point to be able to expand into another players territory and by what year would that be ideal? Last time I remember the Frigate Rush was rather popular with r2 beams by 2420, and I'd wager at that point in time a fleet of about 20-30 could take on a decently defended base?
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1. IMO, you should always, even as a -f, avoid conflict (unless your neighbour looks like a soft target) while good planets are available unopposed so the time to expand is when that is no longer true.
2. Your first viable warships depends on your PRT. The most popular -f race is a IS -f &, in that case, the choice is easy: Crobly FF hordes work moderately well even in the CC era & are available quite early. However, with other races you'll probably want to use DDs or wait for CCs (BCs if you're WM) since, though FFs work OK v beam weapons, they are very brittle v torps.
For testbed purposes I would probably look for 100 Croby CP frigates or 40 CP CCs by 2435 but that's just me (I testbedded Croby FFs & CCs v enemy CCs recently but I seem to have deleted it). In a real game what & how many ships you build will be partly determined by your enemy.
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| Re: Long time... Really Long time... |
Tue, 13 November 2007 04:56 |
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 iztok |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1206
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
| AlexTheGreat wrote on Tue, 13 November 2007 10:09 |
1. IMO, you should always, even as a -f, avoid conflict (unless your neighbour looks like a soft target) while good planets are available unopposed so the time to expand is when that is no longer true.
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Do that, and races with factories will quickly overtake you with resources --> better tech --> better&more ships --> you're toasted.
A -f simply needs to expand on account of others, and that's usually by an early (2415-2420) war, that cripples colony drive of a +f race, and makes it significantly easier target in period 2420-2435. By 2440 the -f should settle most planets in its victim's space, and before 2450 it should have the tech for a fast MarkIV CC horde, with which it should remove another neighbour or two. If you succed in that, you'll have about the same resources as +f races, but double their planets, and more affordable "support" techs (energy, elec, prop), so your late game ships will likely be better than those of +f races.
All that sounds good... on a paper. In the actuall game there's lots of disasters that can happen: a bad planet draw regarding breeders (that hits the -f really badly), no easy targets (SD on the left, a HG WM on top, edge of the uni on the right and bottom), gang on you as an early aggressor...
Anyway the -f is quite easy and fun to play if you like early conflicts. If you don't, you better play some other econ setting.
BR, Iztok
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| Re: Long time... Really Long time... |
Wed, 14 November 2007 19:03 |
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I thought that was what universe creation seeds were for. Not only will you get the same habs and minerals, you'll get the same locations.
I've never bothered to use the command line seed option, but it is there. (Someone who's used this confirm?)
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| Re: Long time... Really Long time... |
Wed, 14 November 2007 19:53 |
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| gwellman wrote on Wed, 14 November 2007 19:03 |
I thought that was what universe creation seeds were for. Not only will you get the same habs and minerals, you'll get the same locations.
I've never bothered to use the command line seed option, but it is there. (Someone who's used this confirm?)
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I always create a .def file with a seed for testbedding.
BTW I also create the testbed with the same universe settings as will be used in the game. I then religiously deny myself planets that are > 300ly (even 301ly) from my HW (tho, strictly speaking, that distance should be varied to correlate with expected HW distances in that game).
Note, you must not vary the race names in the testbed else the same seed will produce different results (as will changing universe settings).
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| Re: Long time... Really Long time... |
Wed, 14 November 2007 20:04 |
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Well thanks for all the advice so far. So far I've come up with the testbed for -f as follows:
Small, Dense, No Random Events, Distant, AI form Alliance
3 other AI, all expert
So far I've tried this twice with some success but I know I can do better. So heres something thats off topic but kinda on topic:
What are the AI PRT's and their Economies?
I haven't had a chance to testbed this yet (tiny packed with all the AI+Me with OWW aka One World Wonder, pretty sure theres a different name for it though...)
And now back on topic:
Since its NOT begin max, I have a chance of having a low iron start, which greatly affects the race I'm putting together (FM Privateers at around 275k to 330k pop) and puts me in worst condition for expansion early on, which makes for a good test if you ask me.
But would this be a good test for a -f assuming I don't have LOADS of people to test the race with over and over again? lol And what combination of AI's would work well in that situation? Or is using AI a bad way to go?
Thanks again for any advice, I'll get testing those AI here soon...
--
"A gem is not polished without rubbing, nor a man perfected without trials." - Chinese ProverbReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Long time... Really Long time... |
Thu, 15 November 2007 07:09 |
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| Micha | 
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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| Entropicurity wrote on Thu, 15 November 2007 02:04 |
So far I've tried this twice with some success but I know I can do better. So heres something thats off topic but kinda on topic:
What are the AI PRT's and their Economies?
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Can't find the list right now, though you can open the AI turn files and have a look what you are fighthing, AI PW = viewai
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I haven't had a chance to testbed this yet (tiny packed with all the AI+Me with OWW aka One World Wonder, pretty sure theres a different name for it though...)
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OWW or 1WW (some time ago I hosted TWW games, Twin World Wonders).
| Quote: |
And now back on topic:
Since its NOT begin max, I have a chance of having a low iron start, which greatly affects the race I'm putting together (FM Privateers at around 275k to 330k pop) and puts me in worst condition for expansion early on, which makes for a good test if you ask me.
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As -f I would rather use med freighters instead of privs. One of the reasons to use privs is that they use very few germ compared to the med freigthers, so privs are better for factory based races.
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But would this be a good test for a -f assuming I don't have LOADS of people to test the race with over and over again? lol And what combination of AI's would work well in that situation? Or is using AI a bad way to go?
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I think in general AIs are not a good idea. They don't act like real people, they offer you free tech when you go popdropping them.  Better to simulate you are at war and build defensive/offensive ships at certain years ...
mch
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| Re: Long time... Really Long time... |
Sun, 18 November 2007 04:01 |
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| Soobie |
 | Officer Cadet 3rd Year |
Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia | |
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I think SS is pretty to tricky to test with only one other race present, unless you are building a duel race? Spy bonus seems to become a bit bloated. More races present tends to drag it down to where it should be for a typical game, albeit the AIs have some strange ideas about what to research and when ...
Right or wrong, on the odd time I have tested SS with the AI present, I've had at least 6 present and mainly left them alone unless they happen to hold a planet I want. If an AI holds a planet I want, I tend to treat the pop as around the 100K~300K mark as far as fleet requirements go. I don't see much point taking out the AI, as they're so broken.
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