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Stars! Order of Events Sun, 04 November 2007 05:56 Go to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
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 Hi!
I just noticed there's an inconsistency in SOoE. In ad. 6 it stands fleets also refuel at bases (orbitals). If there's no orbital at the planet at the time of arrival, but it is constructed in ad. 12: "Production", are arriving ships still refuelled. That happens even if the orbital is immediately destroyed in battle when ships arrive. IMO we need a bit of correction in SOoE: "ships refuell at bases" should be moved somewhere between ad. 12 and 16. Maybe the best place would be immediately after production.
The impact of this is quite important - in late game the Dock can be constructed for 20 resources at every planet, and even if it is immediately destroyed, are all ships in orbit still refuelled. A player with ISb can simply not be stranded in enemy's space.

Also there's no mention of where scanning happens. From my experience it happens very late, likely after remote de-terraforming. An additional line "33. Scanners obtain information" would be in place.

BR, Iztok

[Updated on: Sun, 04 November 2007 05:58]

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Re: Stars! Order of Events Sun, 04 November 2007 07:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 
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iztok wrote on Sun, 04 November 2007 11:56

Hi!
I just noticed there's an inconsistency in SOoE. In ad. 6 it stands fleets also refuel at bases (orbitals). If there's no orbital at the planet at the time of arrival, but it is constructed in ad. 12: "Production", are arriving ships still refuelled. That happens even if the orbital is immediately destroyed in battle when ships arrive. IMO we need a bit of correction in SOoE: "ships refuell at bases" should be moved somewhere between ad. 12 and 16. Maybe the best place would be immediately after production.
The impact of this is quite important - in late game the Dock can be constructed for 20 resources at every planet, and even if it is immediately destroyed, are all ships in orbit still refuelled. A player with ISb can simply not be stranded in enemy's space.


Interesting. I'll fix that later.

Quote:

Also there's no mention of where scanning happens. From my experience it happens very late, likely after remote de-terraforming. An additional line "33. Scanners obtain information" would be in place.

There have been some discussions of when scanning happens, and IIRC it seemed to happen at several places, not just one ...

mch

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Re: Stars! Order of Events Sun, 04 November 2007 18:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 
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iztok wrote on Sun, 04 November 2007 11:56

Hi!
I just noticed there's an inconsistency in SOoE. In ad. 6 it stands fleets also refuel at bases (orbitals). If there's no orbital at the planet at the time of arrival, but it is constructed in ad. 12: "Production", are arriving ships still refuelled. That happens even if the orbital is immediately destroyed in battle when ships arrive. IMO we need a bit of correction in SOoE: "ships refuell at bases" should be moved somewhere between ad. 12 and 16. Maybe the best place would be immediately after production.

I assume that "15. Packets that just launched and reach their destination cause damage" does not remove the SB (by killing all pop on the surface) and therefore does not prevent the refueling in the same turn the SB is build? IOW the planet does not lose the SB till "23. Planets with 0 pop become uninhabited"?

mch

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Re: Stars! Order of Events Mon, 05 November 2007 03:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Soobie

 
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Micha wrote on Sun, 04 November 2007 23:00

Quote:

Also there's no mention of where scanning happens. From my experience it happens very late, likely after remote de-terraforming. An additional line "33. Scanners obtain information" would be in place.

There have been some discussions of when scanning happens, and IIRC it seemed to happen at several places, not just one ...

Scanning also seem to come 'in parts'. eg: the way that if you lose all ships in battle over an inhabited planet (whether or not any ship has a scanner) you now know the planet is colonised but nothing else, but battles occur at Event 17, so by the time scanning should happen you have no ships anymore.

Cheers
S.

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Re: Stars! Order of Events Tue, 06 November 2007 15:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
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 Hi!
Micha wrote on Mon, 05 November 2007 00:57

I assume that "15. Packets that just launched and reach their destination cause damage" does not remove the SB (by killing all pop on the surface) and therefore does not prevent the refueling in the same turn the SB is build? IOW the planet does not lose the SB till "23. Planets with 0 pop become uninhabited"

Good question. I checked it. If a planet is hit and destroyed by a packet, then the orbital is immediately destroyed. No combat happens, and ships also don't refuel. So the proper position for refuelling is after 15 and before 17.

BR, Iztok

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Re: Stars! Order of Events Fri, 09 November 2007 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 
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iztok wrote on Tue, 06 November 2007 21:29

Hi!
Micha wrote on Mon, 05 November 2007 00:57

I assume that "15. Packets that just launched and reach their destination cause damage" does not remove the SB (by killing all pop on the surface) and therefore does not prevent the refueling in the same turn the SB is build? IOW the planet does not lose the SB till "23. Planets with 0 pop become uninhabited"

Good question. I checked it. If a planet is hit and destroyed by a packet, then the orbital is immediately destroyed. No combat happens, and ships also don't refuel. So the proper position for refuelling is after 15 and before 17.

Added at 16. "Random events (comet strikes, etc.)" shouldn't have any effect on refueling, at least I don't remember any comet strikes killing *all* pop and therefore destroying the SB after production ... IIRC it's always a percentage of your pop depending on the size of the comet ...
And "fundemental changes" (or what is the description?) that "cancel all production" wouldn't matter since the SB would alraedy be build ...

... Wait a minute ... this can't be right, those changes would happen *before* production! So the random events go elsewhere? Or they don't happen all in the same place in the OoE ... ?

mch

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Re: Stars! Order of Events Fri, 09 November 2007 19:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marduk is currently offline Marduk

 
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 Refueling could occur at multiple points in the turn.

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Re: Stars! Order of Events Sun, 11 November 2007 05:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
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Micha wrote on Fri, 09 November 2007 21:25

And "fundemental changes" (or what is the description?) that "cancel all production" wouldn't matter since the SB would alraedy be build ...

... Wait a minute ... this can't be right, those changes would happen *before* production! So the random events go elsewhere? Or they don't happen all in the same place in the OoE ... ?


Yeah, that's the question. I never bothered to check the planet where it happened for the amount of infrastructure in the previous turn, so I can not say anything. But from message the production shouldn't happen. What about research? Are the "canceled" resources diverted to it? Eh... Sad Since probability of the event is so low, setting a testbed is likely not worth the hassle.

Does somebody already has the answer to that?

BR, Iztok

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Re: Stars! Order of Events Mon, 12 November 2007 04:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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iztok wrote on Sun, 11 November 2007 11:09

Yeah, that's the question. I never bothered to check the planet where it happened for the amount of infrastructure in the previous turn, so I can not say anything. But from message the production shouldn't happen. What about research? Are the "canceled" resources diverted to it? Eh... Sad Since probability of the event is so low, setting a testbed is likely not worth the hassle.

Does somebody already has the answer to that?



IIRC, I saw once how a vital planet of mine got "cancelled all production" and didn't build anything that turn. I think its valuable research resources were also lost, but I could be mistaken. Whip

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Re: Stars! Order of Events Fri, 15 February 2008 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
finnw is currently offline finnw

 
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Do "fundamental changes" destroy a part-built ship or base? I've never seen it happen, but then I usually avoid leaving ships half-built so I haven't had the chance to find out.

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Re: Stars! Order of Events Sat, 16 February 2008 07:15 Go to previous message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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finnw wrote on Sat, 16 February 2008 00:16

Do "fundamental changes" destroy a part-built ship or base? I've never seen it happen, but then I usually avoid leaving ships half-built so I haven't had the chance to find out.

I think not. At least, it's never happened to me and I usually have multi-turn builds. Confused

But what these changes can do is greatly lower the hab value of the planet and leave most Facs and Mines inoperant. Shocked

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