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Home » Primary Racial Traits » AR » Best miner with ARM and an IT ally?
Best miner with ARM and an IT ally? Sun, 12 August 2007 14:37 Go to next message
gwellman is currently offline gwellman

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 66
Registered: January 2007
Location: Seattle, WA

I've seen it argued that the SuperBug (Midget + 2 UltraMiners) is the best miner because it's gateable through 300/500 gates.

First question: What about using the mini-miner hull? Only 1 or 2 more iron at high cons levels, still gateable, and it has an scan/elec/mech slot for a cloak, jammer, or a man jet, increasing survivability. Or is the idea you always protect your mining fleets with overwhelming warship fleets so that extra slot is a waste?

Second question (and the one implied by my title): Suppose it's a team game and you have an IT ally. Then would you use the UltraMiner hull and 12 UltraMiner robots? Certainly it's the best rate of return on invested iron, but you might have a few wasted turns moving to/from your ally's gates (OTOH, mostly, these sit at the HW generating the fountain. Only when there is some useless red to be strip-mined would you bother *going* any place with them.)

If you did use the Ultra hull, what would you put in the 3x armor/scan/elec/mech slot? Again, I'm thinking cloak, jammer or man jet are the only logical choices. 3 overthrusters would ensure a relatively speedy exit from any battle. Again though, if the idea is you never expose them to any risk, then I suppose the slot should be empty.


[Updated on: Sun, 12 August 2007 14:38]

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Re: Best miner with ARM and an IT ally? Mon, 13 August 2007 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BunBun vonWhiskers is currently offline BunBun vonWhiskers

 
Crewman 3rd Class

Messages: 9
Registered: August 2007
I try to keep my miners out of combat whenever possible, so maneuvering jets and jammers are useless to me. Cloaks are nice, at least in the ďstumbling around in the darkĒ phase, but when you are building zillions of Superbugs, those tiny resource costs add up fast. The bulk of my miners are going to be sitting around my homeworld anyway, and if that gets zapped Iím toast. I have to say that the added survivability is usually not worth the added resource cost if you are only going to have one class of mining ship. If you are going to have two, I would go with a small, cloaked version for when you need to move mining capacity around quickly, while your bulk-rate mining/resource ratio ships sit around your homeworld as efficiently as possible.

If I am using the UM hull as well as Superbugs, I usually donít have any doodads in the extra slot. Heck, since my UMs have only one purpose (to orbit my homeworld supporting my mineral fountain) I sometimes put the prop tech zero engine on them. Once your fountain is going to any reasonable extent, the only thing that matters is resource cost anyway, mineral requirements sort of fall by the wayside.

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Re: Best miner with ARM and an IT ally? Tue, 14 August 2007 01:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT
One big problem with the Ultra miner is that it costs a lot more, so if you have only enough minerals to afford a Superbug, then you will lose a lot of time waiting for mining or shipping to get you enough for a Ultra, whereas with a Superbug, the first will start mining allowing you to use that output to build the next one.

For resources there is also a savings for Superbugs, but it's not as huge: if you can afford 2 bugs or 40% of an Ultra, then you'll have 6 bug/years worth of mining you miss by building an ultra. Eventually that would be made up by the Ultras, but it will take a long time.

One advantage of the mini-miner over the midget, is that the mini can take a mine hit while in a fleet. This is probably not a big issue unless there is a SD around...



- LEit

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Re: Best miner with ARM and an IT ally? Tue, 14 August 2007 23:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
I struggle to look past the Ultra robot on a midgit miner hull (once you get to ulra tech, of course - I'd usually have one or two 'temp' designs along the way, that I'll typically try to trade out later to free up the slot.)

The Ultra hull is maybe a tiny bit cheaper, but it's not much cheaper... And the ability to gate between your OWN gates, to selectively boost minerals at any world at a moments notice (AR manage to mine the same year they gate!) really can be a colony saving advantage (even game saving, sometimes.)

As you approach the end game, ultrabugs get down stupidly cheap anyway... In my last game as AR, they got down to 1.3 resources per mine equivalent. Mmmmm. Ubercheap, instantly gateable mines.... Very Happy

Oh, and even consider using the QJ5 instead of FM on your final design (if you have IFE) just to save a couple of resources per ship. By that point it's rare to need to actually fly miners through space anywhere (in which situation you can use whichever older design you decide to hang on to for a while, for this.)

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Re: Best miner with ARM and an IT ally? Wed, 15 August 2007 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BunBun vonWhiskers is currently offline BunBun vonWhiskers

 
Crewman 3rd Class

Messages: 9
Registered: August 2007
I donít know about putting the QJ5 on Superbugs. I like to have decent engines on my mobile mining fleet in case I need to quickly zip them around the front, hollowing out bombed out enemy worlds. The whole point of the Superbug strategy is that it is quick and mobile, and tying them down with a QJ5 seems to be asking for trouble.

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Re: Best miner with ARM and an IT ally? Wed, 15 August 2007 13:02 Go to previous message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
Quick and mobile, yes. In gates Very Happy

I've thought a few times about the concept of mining out an opponents world... But overall, think it doesn't really accomplish much that bombing out the installations does already. And I'm more likely to get in the position of being able to do *that* to them, if my miners were cheaper... I regreted using FM on my ultrabugs in my last game. It's not a big difference, but I was very aware of it. I was glad to have the FM on my maxibugs and superbugs (the stopgap designs I used on the way to ultras) as these ships *did* make trips through open space.

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