Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Methods of Claiming Territory
|
| Re: Methods of Claiming Territory |
Sun, 24 June 2007 22:52   |
|
|
|
Oh gee... I'm wishing I hadn't tried that now. I'd hate to be a bag of chips for my enemies.
Rule 1: "Pillage, THEN burn!"Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Methods of Claiming Territory |
Sun, 24 June 2007 23:54 |
|
 Iconian |
 | Officer Cadet 2nd Year |
Messages: 233
Registered: January 2006
Location: Nevada, USA | |
|
From: LGA
To: Everyone
The LGA fails to see how colonizing Wanker's Corner was an invasion of Gooberzoid space. If the Gooberzoids were so intent on keeping other races out of their territory, why didn't they warn our colonizer away before its arrival? We received no such warning, nor even a border proposal. How odd that our colonizer was able to make it all the way from our homeworld to Wanker’s Corner, which is closer to their HW than our own. Did the Gooberzoids not have scouts in their territory, such that they didn't see our colonizer coming? Or did they have the scouts, but were they not being vigilant enough and didn't take notice when our colonizer hopped past? These seem the most likely possibilities, and if either was the case, we suggest that the Gooberzoids speedily correct the issue before other races begin taking advantage of the situation. Allowing other races into what you consider to be your space without a word of warning or any sort of border proposal hardly seems a good plan of action. Hopefully with increased vigilance on their part this sort of incident can be entirely prevented in the future.
As to the Gooberzoid’s accusation that we have committed crimes, we believe this is quite erroneous. Their actions thus far seem much more criminal to us than our own. They attempted to extort a ransom from us for our own planet, then lied to all races in hopes of distorting the issue in their minds, and now invaded that same planet, which we consider to be quite criminal. Now they have also called our “veracity” into question. In that regard we ask them, when have we ever lied?
In spite of this, the LGA have no wish to resort to mudslinging or damaging the Gooberzoids unnecessarily, and as such will give them the benefit of the doubt. It is entirely possible that they simply didn’t quite know how to communicate their desires in a constructive manner, and as such upon seeing our colony at Wanker’s Corner they were intimidated into a defensive posture. As the LGA wrote in our initial message in 2400, one of our primary roles in this galaxy is to be a servant to other races. We wish to keep the galaxy informed about the ill behavior of the Gooberzoids, but we ask that other races not look on them too harshly. We will attempt to help and teach the Gooberzoids, such that in the future they won’t immediately have to resort to ill behavior when interacting with their neighbors. Hopefully this will also lead to a good resolution in regard to Wanker’s Corner.
From: LGA
To: Gooberzoids
As the LGA have stated, we have no desire to do damage to the Gooberzoids unnecessarily, and we believe that the matter of Wanker’s Corner can be resolved in a mutually agreeable manner.
The LGA suspect that for whatever reason the Gooberzoids didn’t notice our colonizer on its way to Wanker’s Corner. If this is so, we can understand how when you noticed the colony present on the planet you might have viewed it as being an invasion of your space. We apologize if that is the idea you got. That wasn’t our intent. However, your reactions under the circumstances weren’t appropriate, as they were not far distant from those of a highwayman or bandit. You attempted to exact payment from us for something you didn’t even attempt to prove as being yours. Then you lied, hoping to confuse the other races about the issue, by stating we had donated the planet to you when obviously we had not done so.
Gooberzoids, it doesn’t have to be this way. There are other, more constructive ways to interact with your neighbors. In the future, the first step you can take to correct this sort of issue is to keep a closer eye on the territory near your homeworld. This will give you early warning in case there is a ship like our colonizer on its way to a planet near your HW, so you have the opportunity to contact the owner about it and try to come to a mutual understanding of borders.
For whatever reason though, you didn’t contact us until after we’d already colonized WC. At that point you could have attempted to comm
...
[Updated on: Mon, 25 June 2007 00:00]
Yeah, bread too.
Don't Let the Stars! Fade AwayReport message to a moderator
|
|
|
| |
| Re: Methods of Claiming Territory |
Mon, 25 June 2007 11:08 |
|
| vonKreedon |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA | |
|
I always love it when races take their early game disputes public, it gives me so much information. It tells me that those races are distracted and unlikely to want to get involved in a second dispute, so I have the upper hand diplomatically, either to expand more aggressively or to negotiate an alliance to take out one of the races on favorable terms for me. 
It can tell me where the races are, in the example I now know that the LGA and Goobers are within ~200ly of WC even if I've not seen either of those races, this can help me chart where other races are even if I've not seen them all.
It tells me, or at least gives a clue, about what each of the players involved thinks is "honorable" game play, intel that I can then use in future diplomatic interactions.
It at times draws other races into the public communications giving me similar intel on those races.
Generally speaking I avoid any broadcast communications, with the occasional mid-game exception where I'm trying to breakup an alliance and even then I much prefer to send out e-mails to the alliance members rather than broadcast to the galaxy.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| |
| Re: Methods of Claiming Territory |
Mon, 25 June 2007 18:20 |
|
| Iconian |
| Officer Cadet 2nd Year |
Messages: 233
Registered: January 2006
Location: Nevada, USA | |
|
Before proceeding with the LGA response to the Gooberzoids, let me mention I’m assuming the LGA and Gooberzoids have roughly equal strength, or that the LGA are stronger. If the Gooberzoids were significantly stronger than the LGA, or were part of a strong enough alliance, the LGA would probably be rather more quiet with all this and wait until some point in the future, rather than being so bold in their words.
From: LGA
To: Everyone
The LGA protesteth too much? Not at all. We would that all races be so active in the protest of wrongdoing and seek that justice and right prevail.
The LGA are most pleased that the Gooberzoids have left Wanker’s Corner. It is unfortunate they took the planet from us in the first place.
At a glance, it seems that by leaving Wanker’s Corner the Gooberzoids have backed down. However, the LGA would that all races recognize the truth of the matter. They say, “It now stands ready for colonisation by any and all races that would care to negotiate for rights to the planet.” The Gooberzoids persist and continue to try to cover their crimes; as a thief that knows his goods are too hot, the Gooberzoids are now trying to sell off Wanker’s Corner, still hoping that they can get a ransom for it from some race or another.
All races, listen to the LGA now! We will not hold guiltless any race that colonizes Wanker’s Corner, or tries purchase it from the Gooberzoids, or that even makes them an offer to buy. The Gooberzoids hold no claim to the world, and cannot sell it. It is ours, and if any race should wish to buy it, make your offer to us.
As to the Gooberzoids, we will continue to communicate with them about these issues for the time being.
From: LGA
To: Gooberzoids
We are yet amused at your wriggling, your skill in attempting to slip away from the grasp of justice. Your grasp of language is quite good, and you move with profound agility in the realm of words. These are great strengths you possess! You should put them to good use in the service of the galaxy, correcting wrongs rather than committing them. We seek to unite the galaxy in peace and friendship. Join us, and together we can bring a change of purity throughout the stars.
If not, while we are slow to anger, LGA patience will not last forever, and if necessary we will use force to set things right. We believe at this point it would go far better for you if you simply admit your wrongdoing and stop trying to get away with what you’ve done. The ransom you seek is not worth your effort.
Now, as to the matter of WC, the LGA believe this can be resolved without a conflict. We ask that the Gooberzoids publicly apologize for taking WC from us, and return it to us making no pretense of propriety over it, along with reparations for our slain colonists. We will not stand for it if you continue to pretend it is yours though. (Here mention some possible reparations for the colonists that were killed.)
Yeah, bread too.
Don't Let the Stars! Fade AwayReport message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Methods of Claiming Territory |
Mon, 25 June 2007 19:09 |
|
| Iconian |
| Officer Cadet 2nd Year |
Messages: 233
Registered: January 2006
Location: Nevada, USA | |
|
vonkreedon: So, are you saying that when you have a dispute with another race you never take it public? If not, I think you are limiting yourself terribly. Yes, a public discussion can reveal vulnerabilities that would not otherwise be made known, and if you're insecure with your position, it might not be best to say to much. But in the right hands, public opinion can be an extremely powerful tool. He who wields and understands it is likely to be the true possessor of the diplomatic upper hand (though admittedly, more so in the real world than in Stars!, at least from my experience). You should exercise care with what facts you reveal, but often there is far more to gain by revealing such things than not. Anyway, perhaps you should experiment with it sometime, if you haven't.
And, as you said, you can learn a lot by paying attention to things others say in public broadcasts, etc. I personally wouldn't fear too much about some of those things though. In Hardheads I sent out public broadcasts that told everyone about I think 4-5 planets I was fighting another race over. Did that tell other races roughly where mine and the other race were? Sure, if they were paying attention. But I was pretty confident that giving away those facts wouldn't be creating too big a vulnerability for me. By bringing it up though, I may have brought more support for my side of the issue. Or at least I prevented others from taking my rival's side.
| Quote: |
Regarding how to claim territory, my strategy is to scout aggresively, initiate negotiations early, and to very quickly have OF over populations of over 50K on planets I want.
|
I'd generally agree, but I don't think you should initiate negotiations TOO early. I believe I did that with one race in Hardheads. It turned out that by midgame that race was rapidly being conquered by a neighbor that was actually quite far from them. Had I paid more attention from the beginning I probably wouldn't have proposed the border treaty to him that I did early on, and thus could have delegated him to a position in the galaxy more fitting of his competency.
Yeah, bread too.
Don't Let the Stars! Fade AwayReport message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Methods of Claiming Territory |
Tue, 26 June 2007 10:06 |
|
| vonKreedon |
| Lieutenant |
Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA | |
|
| Iconian wrote on Mon, 25 June 2007 16:09 |
vonkreedon: So, are you saying that when you have a dispute with another race you never take it public? If not, I think you are limiting yourself terribly. Yes, a public discussion can reveal vulnerabilities that would not otherwise be made known, and if you're insecure with your position, it might not be best to say to much. But in the right hands, public opinion can be an extremely powerful tool....
|
Yeah, I almost never use the Everybody setting in sending in-game messages. I totally agree that influencing public opinion is an important part of diplomacy, I just disagree that broadcasting one's problems to the galaxy is the best means of doing this. I believe it is much more effective to identify which race's opinion I want to affect and send them individual e-mails/in-game mail. This way I have more control over both what intel I give out and in crafting my message to better affect each race's opinions. Seriously, while I really enjoy reading broadcasts like the fictional LGA/Goober communications both for the creativity that people put into their role playing and for the information it gives me on the galactic situation; I just think that it is a less effective means of affecting the opinions of those that you need to affect while being counterproductive in making you seem vulnerable/manipulatable to the rest of the galaxy.
Regarding starting negotiations too early, I'm not sure I agree that it is every too early to start negotiations, but there certainly are times when one can end the negotiations too early, either by breaking them off or by reaching an agreement. Also, always be sure that whatever agreement is reached gives you enough flexibility to respond to new information in a timely manner;e.g., a three year exit clause for early treaties vs. a five or ten year clause in later treaties when you have more solid intel on the galactic situation.
[Updated on: Tue, 26 June 2007 13:18] Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Methods of Claiming Territory |
Tue, 26 June 2007 14:40 |
|
| Iconian |
| Officer Cadet 2nd Year |
Messages: 233
Registered: January 2006
Location: Nevada, USA | |
|
| Quote: |
I believe it is much more effective to identify which race's opinion I want to affect and send them individual e-mails/in-game mail.
|
In all honesty, my experience with diplomacy in Stars! is pretty limited, so you might be right. The less races that are involved, or that care about hearing a public broadcast, the less beneficial it seems to be. By the time I really started making my public broadcasts about my disputes in Hardheads, I had already been in touch with 5/10 races in the galaxy. I think the more players there are in a game, the better the payoff would probably be by making disputes public. I suppose a lot of it could actually be affected by the universe settings . . .
| Quote: |
Regarding starting negotiations too early, I'm not sure I agree that it is every too early to start negotiations
|
Well, I just know that in the particular incident I mentioned, I shouldn't have been so quick to form the border I did. Perhaps better advice then would be to be careful about who you negotiate with in what way, and not negotiate yourself into a corner too early 
| Quote: |
Also, always be sure that whatever agreement is reached gives you enough flexibility to respond to new information in a timely manner;e.g., a three year exit clause for early treaties vs. a five or ten year clause in later treaties when you have more solid intel on the galactic situation.
|
And yes, I even had a two-year exit clause with them. I just should have paid more attention and stayed in the information gathering stage a bit longer. Oh well.
And anyone know where goober's gone? Expected a reply by now.
Yeah, bread too.
Don't Let the Stars! Fade AwayReport message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Methods of Claiming Territory |
Wed, 27 June 2007 02:54 |
|
| goober |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 175
Registered: December 2003
Location: +10 | |
|
| Iconian wrote on Mon, 25 June 2007 18:20 |
Before proceeding with the LGA response to the Gooberzoids, let me mention I’m assuming the LGA and Gooberzoids have roughly equal strength, or that the LGA are stronger. If the Gooberzoids were significantly stronger than the LGA, or were part of a strong enough alliance, the LGA would probably be rather more quiet with all this and wait until some point in the future, rather than being so bold in their words.
From: LGA
To: Everyone
The LGA protesteth too much? Not at all. We would that all races be so active in the protest of wrongdoing and seek that justice and right prevail.
The LGA are most pleased that the Gooberzoids have left Wanker’s Corner. It is unfortunate they took the planet from us in the first place.
At a glance, it seems that by leaving Wanker’s Corner the Gooberzoids have backed down. However, the LGA would that all races recognize the truth of the matter. They say, “It now stands ready for colonisation by any and all races that would care to negotiate for rights to the planet.” The Gooberzoids persist and continue to try to cover their crimes; as a thief that knows his goods are too hot, the Gooberzoids are now trying to sell off Wanker’s Corner, still hoping that they can get a ransom for it from some race or another.
All races, listen to the LGA now! We will not hold guiltless any race that colonizes Wanker’s Corner, or tries purchase it from the Gooberzoids, or that even makes them an offer to buy. The Gooberzoids hold no claim to the world, and cannot sell it. It is ours, and if any race should wish to buy it, make your offer to us.
As to the Gooberzoids, we will continue to communicate with them about these issues for the time being.
From: LGA
To: Gooberzoids
We are yet amused at your wriggling, your skill in attempting to slip away from the grasp of justice. Your grasp of language is quite good, and you move with profound agility in the realm of words. These are great strengths you possess! You should put them to good use in the service of the galaxy, correcting wrongs rather than committing them. We seek to unite the galaxy in peace and friendship. Join us, and together we can bring a change of purity throughout the stars.
If not, while we are slow to anger, LGA patience will not last forever, and if necessary we will use force to set things right. We believe at this point it would go far better for you if you simply admit your wrongdoing and stop trying to get away with what you’ve done. The ransom you seek is not worth your effort.
Now, as to the matter of WC, the LGA believe this can be resolved without a conflict. We ask that the Gooberzoids publicly apologize for taking WC from us, and return it to us making no pretense of propriety over it, along with reparations for our slain colonists. We will not stand for it if you continue to pretend it is yours though. (Here mention some possible reparations for the colonists that were killed.)
|
The LGA have protesteth for so long that even now a nubian horde races toward the defence of Wanker's Corner. Equipped with BS Negating shields, Superloquacious armour and 3 slots of Argument-Metaphor Bowdlerizers, any attempt to reclaim WC without the express permission of the Gooberzoids will be sorely contested by our Anti-Propagangist class nubians. 
Goober.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| | |
| Re: Methods of Claiming Territory |
Sun, 08 July 2007 03:42 |
|
|
|
From what I can tell the best method of securing your space is to send out a wave of armed destroyers built for range. Post them at your boarders and if necessary at all the worlds you want to keep.
This prevents pop dropping and saves on economic issues with sending out a years worth of pop to colonize junk. And it sounds like it'll actually give you a more respectable front. Course JOAT will walk all over that boarder but at least it deters other races from peaking at everything you own. I'll try it next game and see how it goes.
Rule 1: "Pillage, THEN burn!"Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Methods of Claiming Territory |
Sun, 08 July 2007 11:03 |
|
|
|
| Quote: |
From what I can tell the best method of securing your space is to send out a wave of armed destroyers built for range. Post them at your boarders and if necessary at all the worlds you want to keep.
|
The problem is the iron crunch. Just making iron for basic shipping can be difficault if your iron con is low and you have a high growth rate.
I'd say the BEST way to secure your space is an agreement with your neighbors.
Then 2nd best is to interdict incomming colony ships from enemy players with a few DDs. Once you know the enemy habs, it's not hard to guess where they are heading next.
I make two designs, one is for escort durty (extended range) the other is for interception (combat speed).
[Updated on: Sun, 08 July 2007 11:51] Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
| Re: Methods of Claiming Territory |
Mon, 09 July 2007 02:23 |
|
|
|
Yes obviously a good agreement is the best method, but that's not something one can count on in ever game. Like in the one I'm playing, one of my neighbors absolutely refused to negotiate with me beyond a simple "My side! Your side!" planet allotment. I wonder what would have happened if I'd just sent out a swarm of destroyers to those planets instead of 2500 pop colony ships.
I recall getting worried messages from a neighbor when I used destroyer colony ships. He got, nervous, and didn't come near that edge of space. Sort of a mix between the two ideas right there. But that only works if they can see them in flight.
[Updated on: Mon, 09 July 2007 02:24]
Rule 1: "Pillage, THEN burn!"Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
| |
| Re: Methods of Claiming Territory |
Tue, 10 July 2007 02:47 |
|
|
|
I like what you said, I'll try and make that my policy from now on. Not being able to move my "marked" territory was one of the great problems I had. Which probably lead to the war I'm effortlessly losing right now.
Rule 1: "Pillage, THEN burn!"Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Sun Apr 28 10:17:42 EDT 2024
|
Members
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
THAT would be hilarious, and a good tactic. 
OTOH to have strong agreements with all neighbours so early in game is hopeless dream.