Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Bar » Effects of a player's reputation on diplomacy and survival chances...
| Effects of a player's reputation on diplomacy and survival chances... |
Thu, 08 March 2007 13:43  |
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I've noticed that in the last few games I've played in, I've been pretty much digpiled on from the very beginning. If I'm playing a quick-start aggressive race, I can usually handle this, but after two games as AR being essentially defeated before 2430, I'm wondering how much of this is because people just want me out of the game. I'm even beginning to wonder if there's much purpose to playing Stars! at all anymore, if other players are unable to make a distinction between my race in the game and me personally there's no reason to even try to play.
The next games I play, I'll be joining under a pseudonym, just to see whether the experience will be different and how much of my diplomacy failure is because players fear me when I have a strong early-game race or just want to crush me out of spite when I don't, or think for some reason that I've more or less regressed and become a much worse player than I used to be (maybe I have - I can't devote the same level of single-minded attention anymore, but then again I've been playing AR in close quarters).
What do you all think? Do you feel that other players treat you a certain way in the game because of who you are or the skill level or general strategy or aggressiveness level you're perceived to have?
[Updated on: Thu, 08 March 2007 13:53] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Effects of a player's reputation on diplomacy and survival chances... |
Thu, 08 March 2007 16:02  |
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 iojho |
 | Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 280
Registered: October 2006
Location: EPBA | |
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Perhaps you should take into consideration other factors which might have inpact on your early defeat, i.e.:
1.
universe size (small is hard for playing as AR)
2.
diplomacy (you have to remember to be "hi" to everyone and try to conclude NAP. In cut-throat, corresponding with me, you did not mention about NAP even once.)
3.
scouting (well... in Cut throat, I was preparing for many years, my ships were stationed nearby your planets uncovered till I attacked. Where were your scouts??)
4.
colonization (you cannot expect that one let you colonize planet remoted only 20 ly form his HW)
5.
moving fleets (try to move your fleets from planet to planet)
6.
protect your bases (in Cut throat, your bases were equipped only with 4 wolverine shields and 1 yokimora)
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mine fields (they create only illusion of safety)
8.
shielded FFs (are useless when your opponent has sappers)
9.
expect everything worst (your opponent may be faster)
iojho
[Updated on: Sat, 10 March 2007 05:32]
"Every person speculates on creating a new need in another, so as to drive him to fresh sacrifice, to place him in a new dependence and to seduce him into a new mode of enjoyment and therefore economic ruin."
Karl Marx,1844Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Effects of a player's reputation on diplomacy and survival chances... |
Thu, 08 March 2007 17:04 |
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IMO the effect on a player's rep. often has exactly the opposite effect because:
1. An alliance with a top gun during the early & mid game will generally be an effective one because their expertise will lend greater efficiency to the alliance.
2. Unless the top gun has had a bad draw in the game or otherwise looks like a particularly soft target they are probably able to defend your initial attacks & you risk early elimination yourself.
Diplomacy is also a major key. If a race has not responded to your multiple messages or uses delaying tactics or starts annexing planets in your core space without asking you I, for one, will usually start making war preparations.
In regard to ARs - I remember in my first game of Stars I was hesitant about forming a strong bond with an AR because I thought I might be better off just killing him off or, if I did ally with him, that I might be dragged into a losing war. Since then I have decided that you are usually better of aligning with the AR for the Germ that you will usually get & the mid/late game fountain.
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| Re: Effects of a player's reputation on diplomacy and survival chances... |
Thu, 08 March 2007 18:13 |
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| iojho |
| Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 280
Registered: October 2006
Location: EPBA | |
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Perhaps, my race does not need AR's fountains since it may establish its own. 
| Coyote wrote on Thu, 08 March 2007 23:57 |
Actually, in that stage of the game AR can't afford to build anything useful, as you can probably tell.
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And this is one of the reasons why I decided to attack AR not Coyote. As it was mentioned many times also in this forum, AR is the most vulnerable race at early stage of game. Please note also that attacking AR you do not need to produce bombers what before the turn 2430 would be hard to do. You were the easiest target for me.
Moreover,
| Coyote wrote on Thu, 08 March 2007 23:57 |
And iojho, where did you expect me to try colonizing when there wasn't anywhere else to go?
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I did not have to go for you, you came to me on your own accord 
[Updated on: Thu, 08 March 2007 18:18]
"Every person speculates on creating a new need in another, so as to drive him to fresh sacrifice, to place him in a new dependence and to seduce him into a new mode of enjoyment and therefore economic ruin."
Karl Marx,1844Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Effects of a player's reputation on diplomacy and survival chances... |
Thu, 08 March 2007 18:16 |
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***Strictly talking in general terms only***
I treat players slightly differently depending on my knowledge of them. It would seem a little foolish not to.
In terms of race style, that is something I wouldn't assume much about and is something that needs to be watched closely in each game to determine. For example, it'd be foolish to a assume that a player that usually plays slow races is doing so, only to discover 10 years later to your cost that they have brought a fast race to the game, when their fleet comes knocking... Similarly, should you assume a player that usually plays fast races is doing so, you risk losing an opportunity to catch a slow race before it ramps up... So that's something about their play that I will keep in mind, but not rely upon.
If I know a player to be an expert, I will treat their race with greater respect (which may mean targetting them for early alliance OR early elimination, depending on exact game situation.)
Conversely, if I know a player to still be learning, this will also effect how I behave to them. In some situations I might plan for a quick conquest, in others I might offer them advice and free/cheap assistance as an easy way to form a highly positive relationship that will benefit me later in the game, without having to limit my options with binding treaties.
Probably the most important factor to consider, in my mind, is their willingness to abandon agreements without honouring pre-agreed exit terms, should the agreement no longer be in their best interest. I'm a lot less likely to form agreements with players that I think have this tendency, unless I were *very* confident that I could ensure remaining true was in their best interest. I guess that would make a hostile relationship slightly more likely in this case, but an amicable treatyless relationship is quite possible.
Soooo.... To answer the original question... Reputation has very little affect on survival chances facing me, as it merely changes my style of approach rather than whether the approach will be hostile or friendly. If I think they are casual towards agreements then they are in a *slightly* more dangerous situation than normal.
[Updated on: Thu, 08 March 2007 18:16] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Effects of a player's reputation on diplomacy and survival chances... |
Fri, 09 March 2007 10:24 |
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| Carn |
| Officer Cadet 4th Year |
Messages: 284
Registered: May 2003 | |
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| Coyote wrote on Thu, 08 March 2007 19:43 |
I've noticed that in the last few games I've played in, I've been pretty much digpiled on from the very beginning. If I'm playing a quick-start aggressive race, I can usually handle this, but after two games as AR being essentially defeated before 2430, I'm wondering how much of this is because people just want me out of the game. I'm even beginning to wonder if there's much purpose to playing Stars! at all anymore, if other players are unable to make a distinction between my race in the game and me personally there's no reason to even try to play.
The next games I play, I'll be joining under a pseudonym, just to see whether the experience will be different and how much of my diplomacy failure is because players fear me when I have a strong early-game race or just want to crush me out of spite when I don't, or think for some reason that I've more or less regressed and become a much worse player than I used to be (maybe I have - I can't devote the same level of single-minded attention anymore, but then again I've been playing AR in close quarters).
What do you all think? Do you feel that other players treat you a certain way in the game because of who you are or the skill level or general strategy or aggressiveness level you're perceived to have?
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Remeber statistics.
Probability to be attacked early out of bad luck: 14%(8 players, 1 looking for a early fight and randomly picking you)
Probability to be attacked early with AR: 40%
Probability to be attacked early in small universe(=4 players) with AR:80%(whom else should they attack?)
Overall probability 0.12*0.4*0.8=0.0352=3.52%
Number of games played by Coyote: 50(guess)=17*3
Probability of being ganged upon 3 times in a row at least once, when having an AR habit: 0.9468**17=60.5%
So if someone plays AR from time to time, such rows of being attacked early are expectable.
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| Re: Effects of a player's reputation on diplomacy and survival chances... |
Fri, 09 March 2007 10:28 |
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| Micha | 
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Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1 | |
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| Dogthinkers wrote on Fri, 09 March 2007 00:16 |
If I know a player to be an expert, I will treat their race with greater respect (which may mean targetting them for early alliance OR early elimination, depending on exact game situation.)
Conversely, if I know a player to still be learning, this will also effect how I behave to them. In some situations I might plan for a quick conquest, in others I might offer them advice and free/cheap assistance as an easy way to form a highly positive relationship that will benefit me later in the game, without having to limit my options with binding treaties.
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About the same here. When I meet a known highly skilled player I'd be more inclined to start alliance negotations sooner, and build up a stronger relation.
And also OTOH when I met an almost complete newbie in a previous game I allied with him instead of killing him. Wiping him out would not have been much fun for him and since our habs allowed intersettling very well there was no real *need* to kill him. We shared PWs and I helped him play his turns, sending .x files back and forth, showing him how to play, how to use boosters ...
mch
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| Re: Effects of a player's reputation on diplomacy and survival chances... |
Sat, 10 March 2007 18:07 |
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| joseph |
 | Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 440
Registered: May 2003
Location: Bristol | |
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I must say - Dogthinkers said most of it for me.
If I know the player to be advanced I will be much more carefull of them (either priority one to make them friend, avoid them, or plan an attack on them carefully).
If they are good - I assume they will respond in the worst way to may attacks
If they are newbs I may take chances assuming they may not.
Also a Newb makes a good ally - you teach them and they probably arent expecting to win so wont desert you 1/2 way through the game in an attempt to win on their own.
What for me is the big issue is how the people have played against me in past games.
Sudden unprovoced attack - I will either get nap or mass forces.
Allied well and given curtious notice of end of alliance (well I would be daft not to consider an alliance again).
Etc
One of the things that may count against Coyote is that he has expressed the opinion in the past that you should seize every advantage that is offered you (not a bad strategy).
Some people have taken this to be an endorsement of backstabbing and it may be this that is causing you a disadvantage (ie you get no allies and as an AR that equals death).
Which is a shame because if I read your posts right (and it was some time ago that I read this!!)
Your comments were more along the lines of - if they dont have a treaty that specifcally states that I wont attack them or give X turns warning before I do, and they dont defend their borders - they they are likely to be attacked.
If this is not what you meant please correct me, I am not saying this is what you said, just what I remember you saying and if I rember that then others may remember similar and that may be why you were attacked.
- The other reason is AR, everybody likes to kill AR
[Updated on: Sat, 10 March 2007 18:08]
Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"Report message to a moderator
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